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QtCreator shadow build directory structure

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  • E enmaniac

    Hmm, I need to check the output later today to see if there is any compiler call made but I dont think thats it.
    Those folders are created once I hit: run qmake from context menu in Qt Creator not during the build itself.

    EDIT: made quick check on the Linux box and it seems those folders are not created there. So in the end maybe this is MSVC thing...ehh

    mrjjM Offline
    mrjjM Offline
    mrjj
    Lifetime Qt Champion
    wrote on last edited by mrjj
    #4

    @enmaniac
    Hi,
    I use shadow build to a ramdrive (for speed) so i used this feature a lot.
    ( even if it warns me it might break stuff )

    Not seen the extra folders with with linux + gcc or
    mingw on windows. ( to be checked )

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    • SGaistS Offline
      SGaistS Offline
      SGaist
      Lifetime Qt Champion
      wrote on last edited by
      #5

      Hi,

      Like @sierdzio wrote, this is specific to MSVC. Their project management system always create these two directories.

      What Qt Creator does is that it creates one shadow build folder per type of build which is what is needed on all platforms to keep both build types cleanly separated. On the other hand, MSVC also does this internally, that's why you get these subfolders in both shadow build directories but it's nothing you have to worry about.

      Interested in AI ? www.idiap.ch
      Please read the Qt Code of Conduct - https://forum.qt.io/topic/113070/qt-code-of-conduct

      1 Reply Last reply
      1
      • K Offline
        K Offline
        koahnig
        wrote on last edited by
        #6

        Sorry to interrupt the thought trails that this is an MSVC issue.

        The directory structure is similar when using Qt creator with MinGW. I believe it has something to do with Qt creator on windows. At least I remember some discussions in the past along this lines.

        I got a a folder
        c:\Source\Shadows\build-SLFGui-Desktop_Qt_5_4_2_MinGW_32bit3-Release\release
        and aside
        c:\Source\Shadows\build-SLFGui-Desktop_Qt_5_4_2_MinGW_32bit3-Release\debug

        c:\Source\Shadows\build-SLFGui-Desktop_Qt_5_4_2_MinGW_32bit3-Release
        contains the makefiles for debug and release and as far as I know you have a similar duplication for *-Debug folder.

        Vote the answer(s) that helped you to solve your issue(s)

        mrjjM 1 Reply Last reply
        1
        • K koahnig

          Sorry to interrupt the thought trails that this is an MSVC issue.

          The directory structure is similar when using Qt creator with MinGW. I believe it has something to do with Qt creator on windows. At least I remember some discussions in the past along this lines.

          I got a a folder
          c:\Source\Shadows\build-SLFGui-Desktop_Qt_5_4_2_MinGW_32bit3-Release\release
          and aside
          c:\Source\Shadows\build-SLFGui-Desktop_Qt_5_4_2_MinGW_32bit3-Release\debug

          c:\Source\Shadows\build-SLFGui-Desktop_Qt_5_4_2_MinGW_32bit3-Release
          contains the makefiles for debug and release and as far as I know you have a similar duplication for *-Debug folder.

          mrjjM Offline
          mrjjM Offline
          mrjj
          Lifetime Qt Champion
          wrote on last edited by
          #7

          @koahnig
          Ok. super input.
          What version of Creator are you on ?
          Im behind on windows.

          J.HilkJ K 2 Replies Last reply
          0
          • mrjjM mrjj

            @koahnig
            Ok. super input.
            What version of Creator are you on ?
            Im behind on windows.

            J.HilkJ Online
            J.HilkJ Online
            J.Hilk
            Moderators
            wrote on last edited by
            #8

            @mrjj
            I can confirm @koahnig statement,

            I do get an unused Debug/Release folder for mingw builds on windows,

            QtCreator 4.3.0 - based on Qt 5.80 and MSVC 2015, 64 Bit

            Using Qt 5.9 build( not yet 5.9.1) and 5.8


            Be aware of the Qt Code of Conduct, when posting : https://forum.qt.io/topic/113070/qt-code-of-conduct


            Q: What's that?
            A: It's blue light.
            Q: What does it do?
            A: It turns blue.

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • mrjjM mrjj

              @koahnig
              Ok. super input.
              What version of Creator are you on ?
              Im behind on windows.

              K Offline
              K Offline
              koahnig
              wrote on last edited by
              #9

              @mrjj

              Unfortunately updated to most recent version of creator 4.3.1.
              Sorry, a bit frustrated at the moment, since something has been mixed up with this update.

              However, I believe the structure is nothing new and is like that since creator version 3 or even 2. It came with the shadow setup.
              Just had a quick look, it is also with Qt5.9.0 with this creator version.
              Unfortunately, I have removed my shadow folder last week. Therefore, I cannot check for older setups.

              Vote the answer(s) that helped you to solve your issue(s)

              mrjjM 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • K koahnig

                @mrjj

                Unfortunately updated to most recent version of creator 4.3.1.
                Sorry, a bit frustrated at the moment, since something has been mixed up with this update.

                However, I believe the structure is nothing new and is like that since creator version 3 or even 2. It came with the shadow setup.
                Just had a quick look, it is also with Qt5.9.0 with this creator version.
                Unfortunately, I have removed my shadow folder last week. Therefore, I cannot check for older setups.

                mrjjM Offline
                mrjjM Offline
                mrjj
                Lifetime Qt Champion
                wrote on last edited by mrjj
                #10

                @koahnig
                Ok, Ill check when I get home but most likely i remember wrong then.

                Update:
                Yes mingw/Creator 4.2.1 does in fact make empty folder even project was never build for release.

                but i can do it with qmake alone so its a qmake thing it seems

                alt text

                K 1 Reply Last reply
                1
                • E Offline
                  E Offline
                  enmaniac
                  wrote on last edited by enmaniac
                  #11

                  I have also run qmake on my Windows machine and it on its won creates those directories. Perhaps thats some weird Windows version behavior ?

                  Cheers!

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • mrjjM mrjj

                    @koahnig
                    Ok, Ill check when I get home but most likely i remember wrong then.

                    Update:
                    Yes mingw/Creator 4.2.1 does in fact make empty folder even project was never build for release.

                    but i can do it with qmake alone so its a qmake thing it seems

                    alt text

                    K Offline
                    K Offline
                    koahnig
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #12

                    @mrjj

                    Do not nail me down on this.
                    However, I think the debug and release you are showing is certainly coming from qmake and was even the case before qt creator.
                    You see also in the folder that there is a Makefile.Debug and a Makefile.Release.

                    The shadow folder came into the game with creator at some point. For complete logical separation two complete different path' containing Release and Debug respectively had been introduced. For some compatibility reason it could not be changed.

                    There is a reason for this on windows. There has been an answer by @tobias.hunger on this a couple of years back in the forum. I was looking for it today, but the search functionality here is useless or at least really strange and not intuitive.

                    Vote the answer(s) that helped you to solve your issue(s)

                    mrjjM 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • K koahnig

                      @mrjj

                      Do not nail me down on this.
                      However, I think the debug and release you are showing is certainly coming from qmake and was even the case before qt creator.
                      You see also in the folder that there is a Makefile.Debug and a Makefile.Release.

                      The shadow folder came into the game with creator at some point. For complete logical separation two complete different path' containing Release and Debug respectively had been introduced. For some compatibility reason it could not be changed.

                      There is a reason for this on windows. There has been an answer by @tobias.hunger on this a couple of years back in the forum. I was looking for it today, but the search functionality here is useless or at least really strange and not intuitive.

                      mrjjM Offline
                      mrjjM Offline
                      mrjj
                      Lifetime Qt Champion
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #13

                      @koahnig
                      That would make sense. Yep Google ruined me. (too)
                      There have been reports over time
                      https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTCREATORBUG-13807

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      1
                      • sierdzioS Offline
                        sierdzioS Offline
                        sierdzio
                        Moderators
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #14

                        And here is direct link to the report for qmake https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTBUG-52347

                        Thanks for the investigation :-) So indeed it is a "Windows" thing, but not MSVC's fault - that's a "feature" of qmake.

                        (Z(:^

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        2
                        • E Offline
                          E Offline
                          enmaniac
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #15

                          So it seems that this is for the sake of being like this ? Or did I miss some real cause between the lines ?

                          Cheers!

                          sierdzioS 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • E enmaniac

                            So it seems that this is for the sake of being like this ? Or did I miss some real cause between the lines ?

                            sierdzioS Offline
                            sierdzioS Offline
                            sierdzio
                            Moderators
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #16

                            @enmaniac said in QtCreator shadow build directory structure:

                            So it seems that this is for the sake of being like this ? Or did I miss some real cause between the lines ?

                            Quoting Ossi:

                            debug_and_release is set on windows, because the builds are binary incompatible and thus must be kept separate consistently. on unix, that problem doesn't exists - you can mix and match as you like. still, you can make debug_and_release framework builds for mac. in other cases, the problem is the lack of any system support or even naming convention to support such a feature.
                            in fact, this is messy enough that we still don't know exactly what we want to do in qbs, where we can mostly decide from scratch what to do.

                            So, there is a reason for this. Only I guess most people (including myself) are totally not convinced by this "solution" ;-) especially since shadow builds exist.

                            (Z(:^

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            1
                            • E Offline
                              E Offline
                              enmaniac
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #17

                              Exactly my point.
                              I understand the statement. However, in shadow build mode, there is no danger of mixing things up since there are separate directories provided already, thus, problem is avioded.

                              I can understand the need for those for non shadow build mode. But even then, documentation is clear that you should use it only when you need single type of build so mixing debug and release should be considered a violiation of use.

                              Cheers!

                              K 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • E enmaniac

                                Exactly my point.
                                I understand the statement. However, in shadow build mode, there is no danger of mixing things up since there are separate directories provided already, thus, problem is avioded.

                                I can understand the need for those for non shadow build mode. But even then, documentation is clear that you should use it only when you need single type of build so mixing debug and release should be considered a violiation of use.

                                K Offline
                                K Offline
                                koahnig
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #18

                                @enmaniac @sierdzio

                                If you see the solution it is for sure more than strange. No doubt about this. For users without creator and shadow builds, it does not look as strange. Both folders are created simultaneously. At least 90% have to debug anyway before they create a release version.

                                With creator and having already some debug respectively it starts to look strange, because of the stupid duality.
                                I think tobias wrote something about shared code between creator and qmake. The part is repsonsible for the duality. Tobias answered a bit frustrated that everybody is beating onto this duality, but there had to be a real deep change in qmake for getting away from this. Since we are all developers we some kind understand that real deep changes in running applications may mean that a can of worms will be opened. Therefore, be gentle.

                                In any case the shadowing through creator is a great thing!!

                                I am using it in a slightly different approach by using it with a central shadow folder. This helps when you have numerous projects. Once in a while I am deleting this central shadow folder. I did not consider the parallel shadow folder within project folders as helpful, since I had to scan through all projects manually.

                                Vote the answer(s) that helped you to solve your issue(s)

                                mrjjM 1 Reply Last reply
                                2
                                • K koahnig

                                  @enmaniac @sierdzio

                                  If you see the solution it is for sure more than strange. No doubt about this. For users without creator and shadow builds, it does not look as strange. Both folders are created simultaneously. At least 90% have to debug anyway before they create a release version.

                                  With creator and having already some debug respectively it starts to look strange, because of the stupid duality.
                                  I think tobias wrote something about shared code between creator and qmake. The part is repsonsible for the duality. Tobias answered a bit frustrated that everybody is beating onto this duality, but there had to be a real deep change in qmake for getting away from this. Since we are all developers we some kind understand that real deep changes in running applications may mean that a can of worms will be opened. Therefore, be gentle.

                                  In any case the shadowing through creator is a great thing!!

                                  I am using it in a slightly different approach by using it with a central shadow folder. This helps when you have numerous projects. Once in a while I am deleting this central shadow folder. I did not consider the parallel shadow folder within project folders as helpful, since I had to scan through all projects manually.

                                  mrjjM Offline
                                  mrjjM Offline
                                  mrjj
                                  Lifetime Qt Champion
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #19

                                  @koahnig

                                  I have all projects on ram drive. It was a huge mess allowing it to
                                  make build-xxx all over the drive. :)
                                  Also it turned out for bigger projects the 6000/6000 MB/s speed was also
                                  beneficial.

                                  K 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • mrjjM mrjj

                                    @koahnig

                                    I have all projects on ram drive. It was a huge mess allowing it to
                                    make build-xxx all over the drive. :)
                                    Also it turned out for bigger projects the 6000/6000 MB/s speed was also
                                    beneficial.

                                    K Offline
                                    K Offline
                                    koahnig
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #20

                                    @mrjj

                                    What kind of ram drive are you using?

                                    Did not follow that issue for some time.

                                    Vote the answer(s) that helped you to solve your issue(s)

                                    mrjjM 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • K koahnig

                                      @mrjj

                                      What kind of ram drive are you using?

                                      Did not follow that issue for some time.

                                      mrjjM Offline
                                      mrjjM Offline
                                      mrjj
                                      Lifetime Qt Champion
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #21

                                      @koahnig
                                      Hi
                                      this one
                                      https://sourceforge.net/projects/imdisk-toolkit/

                                      My new fav after Datarams free ver became a bit to nagging
                                      Also this one have iso mounting and other good stuff and better speed.

                                      There are many to choose from
                                      https://www.raymond.cc/blog/12-ram-disk-software-benchmarked-for-fastest-read-and-write-speed/

                                      On linux I just use the systems version.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      2
                                      • E Offline
                                        E Offline
                                        enmaniac
                                        wrote on last edited by enmaniac
                                        #22

                                        @koahnig

                                        I see. Indeed I havent considered all those who dont use QtCreator and its features. Havent done this myself for ages and that slipped my mind.

                                        I will try to do the trick with CONFIG -= debug_and_release to check if that at least is going to make it more intuitive for someone using QtCreator and shadow builds.

                                        Thanks all for valuable feedback on it.

                                        Cheers!

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • E Offline
                                          E Offline
                                          enmaniac
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #23

                                          I have verified that once CONFIG -= debug_and_release is added to the pro file additional debug/release subfolders do not popup in shadow mode builds.

                                          Thus, I am closing this thread since I got all my questions answered.

                                          Thanks a lot to you all!

                                          Cheers!

                                          K 1 Reply Last reply
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