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Qt vs Symbian C++

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  • V Offline
    V Offline
    varunnarula
    wrote on last edited by
    #19

    bq. The proper solution to this problem is for Nokia to stop creating devices with too little space on C:!

    That is exactly the problem. 128 MB will just not cut it. At the very least, 256 MB is required. The N900 has some virtual memory, any idea if something similar can be done on Symbian ?

    Take the N97 for example, and with Maps, Quickoffice, Qt and browser cache, the memory quickly fills up. With virtual memory, this problem could be solved.

    'There are only 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't'

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    • M Offline
      M Offline
      m_p_wilcox
      wrote on last edited by
      #20

      No, you're confusing RAM and Flash. Symbian does have virtual memory in the form of demand paging and specifically Writable Data Paging in Symbian^3. That will mean more free RAM but it doesn't help with the amount of space on C: (in fact it could make it worse because that data has to be paged out to flash somewhere!).

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      • K Offline
        K Offline
        kamalakshantv
        wrote on last edited by
        #21

        [quote author="varunnarula" date="1275576380"]I have tried installing the qt_installer.sis which comes with the (beta) Qt SDK and during installation, the option is provided, but I noticed that all the library components installed on the C: drive.

        Have you tried installing any Qt application (bundled with the Qt libraries) on the mass memory. Do let me know, this is something I want to try out.[/quote]

        There was an issue with qt_installer.sis and it need to be installed on c: only. It was said to be fixed in the newer versions.

        However, apart from this you can install any Qt Application in the mass memory.

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        • K Offline
          K Offline
          kamalakshantv
          wrote on last edited by
          #22

          [quote author="varunnarula" date="1276181289"]bq. The proper solution to this problem is for Nokia to stop creating devices with too little space on C:!

          That is exactly the problem. 128 MB will just not cut it. At the very least, 256 MB is required. The N900 has some virtual memory, any idea if something similar can be done on Symbian ?

          Take the N97 for example, and with Maps, Quickoffice, Qt and browser cache, the memory quickly fills up. With virtual memory, this problem could be solved.

          [/quote]

          I do agree N97 has memory issues. But I think most new devices will handle these issues now.

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          • V Offline
            V Offline
            varunnarula
            wrote on last edited by
            #23

            The qt_installer.sis was from the beta 1 of the Qt SDK released recently. Have yet to try the one from the latest beta, I believe it is 2.0.

            'There are only 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't'

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            • V Offline
              V Offline
              varunnarula
              wrote on last edited by
              #24

              I hope the N97 is the last phone with 128 MB :-)

              'There are only 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't'

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              • S Offline
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                snowpong
                wrote on last edited by
                #25

                [quote author="QtK" date="1276271405"]
                There was an issue with qt_installer.sis and it need to be installed on c: only. It was said to be fixed in the newer versions. [/quote]

                The reason we force Qt on C: is because otherwise applications startup can take several seconds - we're talking 15 seconds for example. That is simply not acceptable for an end user.

                Now, the reason it is slow to load, is because of an overzealous security check on Symbian, where they will re-read and calculate a CRC/MD5/checksum of a library loaded by an app too many times (imagine it's re-reading QtGui 4-5 times for an app startup, just to make sure it's not been tampered with). This check only kicks in for libraries installed on mass memory, so if it's on C this doesn't even happen.

                So, basically - is it possible to have Qt installed somewhere else than C, yes. Is it recommended, no. And that's why the qt_installer.sis is hardcoded to put it on C.

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                • K Offline
                  K Offline
                  kamalakshantv
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #26

                  [quote author="snowpong" date="1284454969"][quote author="QtK" date="1276271405"]
                  There was an issue with qt_installer.sis and it need to be installed on c: only. It was said to be fixed in the newer versions. [/quote]

                  The reason we force Qt on C: is because otherwise applications startup can take several seconds - we're talking 15 seconds for example. That is simply not acceptable for an end user.

                  Now, the reason it is slow to load, is because of an overzealous security check on Symbian, where they will re-read and calculate a CRC/MD5/checksum of a library loaded by an app too many times (imagine it's re-reading QtGui 4-5 times for an app startup, just to make sure it's not been tampered with). This check only kicks in for libraries installed on mass memory, so if it's on C this doesn't even happen.

                  So, basically - is it possible to have Qt installed somewhere else than C, yes. Is it recommended, no. And that's why the qt_installer.sis is hardcoded to put it on C.[/quote]

                  Thank you for making it clear.

                  Does Nokia smart installer do the same. Because at times you have only a few MB left in C: on your device.

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                  • S Offline
                    S Offline
                    snowpong
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #27

                    [quote author="QtK" date="1284456470"]
                    Thank you for making it clear.

                    Does Nokia smart installer do the same. Because at times you have only a few MB left in C: on your device.
                    [/quote]

                    The Smart Installer will force it onto C as well, and fail gracefully if there is not enough space.

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                    • K Offline
                      K Offline
                      kamalakshantv
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #28

                      [quote author="snowpong" date="1284456669"][quote author="QtK" date="1284456470"]
                      Thank you for making it clear.

                      Does Nokia smart installer do the same. Because at times you have only a few MB left in C: on your device.
                      [/quote]

                      The Smart Installer will force it onto C as well, and fail gracefully if there is not enough space.

                      [/quote]

                      Will this delay in launching be observed in anyway, if an end-user application has some libraries and are not placed in C:. Or this affects only the Qt runtime libraries.

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                      • S Offline
                        S Offline
                        snowpong
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #29

                        [quote author="QtK" date="1284457056"]Will this delay in launching be observed in anyway, if an end-user application has some libraries and are not placed in C:. Or this affects only the Qt runtime libraries.
                        [/quote]

                        Typically no. It's a special case. You'll experience it if:

                        Your library is big (2-5megs for example)

                        You have lots of plugins that link back to your library again

                        So in general, don't worry. If you have a library with your app it's not gonna hit you in most cases.

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                        • K Offline
                          K Offline
                          kamalakshantv
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #30

                          [quote author="snowpong" date="1284457553"][quote author="QtK" date="1284457056"]Will this delay in launching be observed in anyway, if an end-user application has some libraries and are not placed in C:. Or this affects only the Qt runtime libraries.
                          [/quote]

                          Typically no. It's a special case. You'll experience it if:

                          Your library is big (2-5megs for example)

                          You have lots of plugins that link back to your library again

                          So in general, don't worry. If you have a library with your app it's not gonna hit you in most cases.

                          [/quote]

                          Thank you for the clarification.

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                          • J Offline
                            J Offline
                            jaak
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #31

                            I read on forum nokia discussion forums that the smart installer is currently useful only for deploying Qt apps to a very few Symbian devices. The reason cited was lack of space on c drive on most of the current devices. Is this true ? I have one project I'am planning to do in Qt. If the above is true I have to revert back to native Symbian api.

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                            • K Offline
                              K Offline
                              kamalakshantv
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #32

                              [quote author="Jayakrishnan.M" date="1284624241"]
                              I read on forum nokia discussion forums that the smart installer is currently useful only for deploying Qt apps to a very few Symbian devices. The reason cited was lack of space on c drive on most of the current devices. Is this true ? I have one project I'am planning to do in Qt. If the above is true I have to revert back to native Symbian api.[/quote]

                              Smart Installer too installs Qt libraries to C:, so if there is not enough space it cannot get installed.

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                              • K Offline
                                K Offline
                                kamalakshantv
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #33

                                But then going forward more devices are expected to be launched with Qt pre-installed.

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                                • S Offline
                                  S Offline
                                  snowpong
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #34

                                  Here is the "best documented list":http://www.forum.nokia.com/Distribute/Packaging_and_signing.xhtml#article1_a I could find of the current devices OVI / Smart Installer likes.

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                                  • J Offline
                                    J Offline
                                    jaak
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #35

                                    [quote author="snowpong" date="1284630014"]Here is the "best documented list":http://www.forum.nokia.com/Distribute/Packaging_and_signing.xhtml#article1_a I could find of the current devices OVI / Smart Installer likes.[/quote]

                                    Thanks for the link.

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                                    • X Offline
                                      X Offline
                                      xsacha
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #36

                                      There is a new SmartInstaller v1.1 by the way.
                                      http://info.publish.ovi.com/?p=596
                                      Mandatory as of today but was released last week.

                                      Some stuff may have changed with regards to this topic.

                                      • Sacha
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                                      • S Offline
                                        S Offline
                                        snowpong
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #37

                                        Thanks for the update

                                        But - why can't they put a date on news releases like this? They say "Starting today, the new Nokia Smart Installer v1.1 is now mandatory for all Qt- based Symbian apps submitted to Ovi Publish" yet there is no date anywhere...

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                                        • X Offline
                                          X Offline
                                          xsacha
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #38

                                          It says it was released on the 24th in the wiki that page links to. Unless you meant when it became mandatory. Date of article was 2nd of December I think. I remember seeing the date before but now that I look, it's not there :O

                                          By the way, just after this announcement one of my smart installer apps passed QA. So it's only for new submissions.

                                          • Sacha
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