Why continue with Qt



  • I opened the forum nokia home page and three development platforms are listed. Windows phone, Qt and S40. Under Qt, they say develop using Qt for Symbian and N9. So why should I learn Qt ? For targeting two dead platforms ? Under S40 ( Next billion as of now ) they have put links to Java and web sdks. So can anybody tell me there is any serious future for Qt in the mobile space ?



  • Well, I can't tell you what the next years will bring - and to be honest nobody can. But I can tell you that the information you've found and recited here is plain wrong.

    Qt has 10 Tier 1 platforms and 14 Tier 2 platforms (including Symbian S60 3.1+, 5.0, ^3, Anna, Belle+). When it comes to mobile computing we have additional support for MeeGo/Harmattan, Maemo, Mer, Novomok Tizen and the new Linux based operating system from Nokia which is said to drive the next billion of Nokia devices (this is not the Java-based S40). In addition, there is a (community-driven) port to Android and UIKit (or iOS or iPhone).

    Windows Phone 7 devices are currently artifically restricted to not allow Qt applications (or any native code in general). But we are talking about a platform here with less than 1% market share. This might change - but again - nobody knows.

    In addition you will benefit from all the stuff that Qt distincts from any other multiplatform or native toolkit (code and design quality, documentation, community).

    In the end it is everyones own decision. But you should ask yourself the question - is there any better alternative?



  • I'am not sure you are answering my question. I'am asking specifically about the mobile space. And you know that both Symbian and Meego are dead. It is too early to say anything about Tizen. I didn't say a word about Win7 market share or Native sdk vs others or code design or quality. As far as Android and iOs versions they are just experiments. Are anybody making serious apps using Qt on these platforms ?

    It will be good if Nokia say what the next billion is. My guess is that it is the next version of maemo, not a brand new OS. But unless Nokia confirms it we can't say for sure. Being a Qt lover and a mobile app developer, I'am simply frustrated.



  • On DevDays it was announced, that the next Billion (those who are not Win Phone 7) will be Qt based.



  • Yes, there are serious apps made using Qt and yes, there is hardly anyone who isn't frustrated on how things went on in the last few months and years. Maemo / MeeGo harmattan could have been what Nokia was looking for the smartphone market, Symbian could have been what Nokia was looking for the featureless phone market - both having a properous development community. I'll stop here as this would lead to another Elop discussion.

    But as said - nobody can tell you what the future will bring. But this is how our industry works. Has anyone heard about iPhone or Android - or smartphones in general - five years ago?

    Using Qt even for mobile projects currently allows me to reuse all the code I've ever written, to reuse all the experience I've gained using Qt to create desktop applications, to not bother with any native SDKs for Symbian, Android, iOS, Maemo or Meltemi (the "next billion" ware) and to easily port the applications to platforms Qt doesn't support yet. May I lose this advantages when Qt goes south somewhen? Probably. But I will lose this advantages immediately if I turn my back on Qt now.

    As I said - nobody can or will answer the question you've raised. You better ask yourself why to not use Qt and if there are any better alternatives.



  • Still, it was, IMHO, a dissapointing presentation. Lots of praise for the great N9 (lots of those handed out too, by the way!) and how great the new Symbian versions were, not no word on how those platforms are basically dead as there will not be a new Meego/Meamo device, and symbian will be replaced by Windows Phone. The N9 is not even for sale in many countries.

    I had hoped for a bit more concrete information on where Qt is going and what its place in the Nokia strategy is going to be. Nice that "the next billion" will run on Qt, but will they also run apps? Is that market willing and able to pay for apps?

    Good news is though, that Qt-project is launced. Qt is not bound by the direction Nokia takes it. That brings many opportunities, and also makes it easier to keep support for the desktop as strong as it deserves to be.



  • "RIM added Qt to the BlackBerry Native SDK":http://developer.qt.nokia.com/forums/viewthread/4719.



  • RIM has added c\c++ support. But the Qt port on Qnx is partial, I think. Nokia may not be interested, but there can be a similar effort like that for Android. The answer to my question can be given only by Nokia, but they are keeping silent. That is what frustrates me. They should have given more details on the ' Next Billion ' thing. If they intend to replace S40 with ' Next Billion ', then what about the current S40 J2me developers ? I think Nokia should clearly address these uncertainties that arise in the minds of developers.



  • If there is one thing you should have learned is: do not give much about what is beeing said.

    Nokia announced Maemo will be the future, than MeeGo, then Windows Phone 7. Symbian should be the future for featureless phones, but it was dropped from one day to another. The abandoned MeeGo/Harmattan formerly known as Maemo was picked up again and now should be the future. If Windows Phone 7 devices do not sell - what then? I hereby prophesy that Nokia will join the Tizen alliance and Maemo 7 will be released as Tizen/Harmattan.



  • You are making a pretty common mistake, namely thinking that Nokia is the only one influencing Qt development or producing devices that Qt runs on. They aren't. Period.



  • I didn't say that the Nokia is the only one influencing Qt development. But where are the other mobile phones that officially runs Qt ?



  • Qt is not only mobile phones. It'S desktop, embedded and phones.
    There are even apps that run on android officially.



  • [quote author="Gerolf" date="1319545326"]Qt is not only mobile phones. It'S desktop, embedded and phones.
    There are even apps that run on android officially.[/quote]

    I know that. I was thinking about the mobile space. But I believe that Nokia should have communicated to developers in a much better way regarding next billion and Qt's future on phones. May be Nokia world provide some information regarding this. Showing Symbian and N9 as the targets for Qt is pointless since Nokia don't support them.



  • As for mobiles, it is very likely that Qt will be present in Tizen, endorsed by Intel & Samsung. That could be a big player in a year or two. Nokia's Harmattan/Symbian devices will be around for a few years more. The excellent Qt Android port seems to work very nicely, adding a whopping amount of devices in the Qt's target sector. And I am hopeful that there will be a Qt port for the Windows Phone, although this remains to be seen. And there even has been talk about a S40 Qt port. In other words, no reason to give up Qt in the mobile world.

    As for the desktop world - well, you can build software quickly for both Linux and Windows and even that quirky Mac with Qt which in my opinion is the best framework for native crossplatform development there is. By a large margin.



  • [quote author="matti-" date="1319703967"]And I am hopeful that there will be a Qt port for the Windows Phone, although this remains to be seen. And there even has been talk about a S40 Qt port. In other words, no reason to give up Qt in the mobile world.
    [/quote]
    Obviously the WinPho SDK will be available at some point. Even though Nokia made an agreement with MS that they wouldn't be actively porting Qt to WinPho7, who is stopping (non-Nokian) individuals from making a lighthouse plugin?

    If people care, it will come. That's how FOSS generally works.



  • The Android port looks promising. There is a chance that Qt will be supported on RIM BBX. Anybody have more info from the Nokia world event ? The ' next billion ' still seems to be the old S40 based devices. That is what I understand from the newly announced ' ASHA ' series of devices. There doesn't seem to be any new announcement related to Qt for next billion on either Nokia world or Qt developer days. I read somewhere that Nokia is still planning to continue with Maemo. Anybody have more information regarding S40, Qt or maemo ?



  • [quote author="Franzk" date="1319704790"]Even though Nokia made an agreement with MS that they wouldn't be actively porting Qt to WinPho7, who is stopping (non-Nokian) individuals from making a lighthouse plugin?[/quote]

    Well, M$ could do what Apple are doing to prevent people from using free tools and block any such software from their stores / signing process meaning although in theory you could write & run a Qt program on said platform, you would not be able to distribute it. I hope they won't go that way though. I have already given up on Apple devices.

    The S40 / "Next Billion" platform is rumored to be a Linux flavor called Meltemi. Some references:

    http://androsym.com/symbian/nokia-to-replace-s40-with-linux-based-meltemi-to-connect-the-next-billion/
    http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2011/06/21/qt’s-future-for-nokia-bringing-apps-to-the-next-billion/

    • Matti


  • I had seen the Meltemi rumor. But still no concrete information from Nokia. Neither from Qt developer days nor from Nokia world. As I said earlier, the phones introduced for next billion at the Nokia world are S40 6th edition devices. True that unless there is official support from the OS developers (like MS), distribution on respective stores may not be possible. Hope Google won't block necessitas apps once it matures and lot of people start using it. We really needs a Qt mobile platform that Nokia supports. Currently ' Next billion ' = uncertainty.



  • Although no operating system was mentioned it was clearliy mentioned that the next billion will be Qt, wasn't it? And as a Qt developer I usually don't care about the underlying operating system.



  • Yes, it was. But that does not mean that it will be able to run apps (what would be the difference with the smartphone market then?), let alone if such a market segment would even be an interesting market for app developers. At the devdays keynote, there was mainly a lot of cheer for the N9 and the new symbians, but no mention of how EOL these platforms are with the current* Nokia roadmap. I'm certainly going to play around with my shiney new N9 and try to build some stuff for it, but I would not invest in it from a business point of view. Then again, I am not a business man, so I might just be overlooking the opportunities.

    [*] In so far as that is publicly available, of course.



  • Well, I guess they are called emerging markets because they are supposed to... emerge ;-)



  • [quote author="Lukas Geyer" date="1319715834"]Although no operating system was mentioned it was clearliy mentioned that the next billion will be Qt, wasn't it? And as a Qt developer I usually don't care about the underlying operating system.[/quote]

    If I remember right, Qt as core of next billion was announced at Nokia Connection event in June 2011. After that simply no news about it, isn't it ? On the forum nokia home page, under the Qt sdk, two targets are listed, N9 - The beautiful phone which Nokia refuses to sell, Symbian - Killed by Nokia early this year. No next billion. If they have a solid plan for Qt and next billion, is it so difficult to share it with developers ?



  • Wasn't it stated on the DevDays a few days ago?



  • [quote author="Lukas Geyer" date="1319719605"]Wasn't it stated on the DevDays a few days ago?[/quote]

    On google search I got the following link from maemo.org

    "http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=79051":http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=79051

    Scroll down a bit, in red block letters, the text say something big regarding this is coming.



  • Well, I'm using QT as thin layer only, the core still std, boost, and other stuffs that supposed to be platform free.

    Native app is certainly not going to be faded away in very near future, especially if you targetting not just that locked platform.

    I wish WP7 had native SDK, that would be cool!



  • [quote author="ardhitama" date="1319737189"]I wish WP7 had native SDK, that would be cool![/quote]

    Actually WP7 has a native SDK and supports native code execution but most of us aren't allowed to publish native applications through the WP7 app store. For instance Adobe got permission to publish Flash as a native application.

    Qt might run out of the box on rooted WP7 devices as it is just Windows CE after all - which is supported by Qt.



  • Yesterday I saw the advertisement for an Android phone that costs just around Rs 4000 in India, that will be below $100, the price of a dumb S40 Nokia phone in India. I don't think Nokia can effectively compete with Android with the current S40 phones, even with the new ASHA series. Already people here are fast moving to Android for both high end and low end phones. I feel Nokia must really use Maemo for next billion to compete against Android at the low-mid end and I guess that is just what they are going to do.


  • Moderators

    The topic is "Why continue with Qt", so bear with me for not commenting on the "how to build better phones" suggestions.

    "Why continue with Qt" was to me answered on the devdays in Munich we had this week: Because Qt is a great toolkit with a vibrant, strong and growing community! It really were the best devdays I ever participated in: Lots of interesting people commited to Qt -- inside and outside of Nokia.

    Open Governance is really taking off, too. I have merged more contributions into Qt Creator since it opened last Friday than in the whole of September (and I did not even bother to check codereview during the time I was in Munich!). We trolls are not slacking of either. Just go and check "codereview.qt-project.org":https://codereview.qt-project.org/#q,status:merged,n,z and see for yourself.



  • Bravo @ Tobias!

    And never forget: Qt always was and will ever be more than a mobile toolkit. Yes, there are still some desktop developers out there ;-)



  • [quote author="Tobias Hunger" date="1319826325"]The topic is "Why continue with Qt", so bear with me for not commenting on the "how to build better phones" suggestions.

    "Why continue with Qt" was to me answered on the devdays in Munich we had this week: Because Qt is a great toolkit with a vibrant, strong and growing community! It really were the best devdays I ever participated in: Lots of interesting people commited to Qt -- inside and outside of Nokia.

    Open Governance is really taking off, too. I have merged more contributions into Qt Creator since it opened last Friday than in the whole of September (and I did not even bother to check codereview during the time I was in Munich!). We trolls are not slacking of either. Just go and check "codereview.qt-project.org":https://codereview.qt-project.org/#q,status:merged,n,z and see for yourself.[/quote]

    Regarding the Android and S40 comment, yes that seems off topic. I'am not making any suggestions on how to make better phones. I'am sorry if I sounded that way and I also feel I should have titled the post as ' Why continue with Qt on Mobile '. Maemo is a Qt supported platform and if it is chosen as the platform for next billion, it will be good for Qt mobile developers. Thats just my thought. I know Qt has great future on desktop and embedded world. I myself do all my hobby desktop development on Qt. But being a mobile developer, I'am a bit concerned. But as announced, at Qt dev days, I hope something good is coming to mobile space. Anyway I love Qt and will continue to be a Qt developer. I do have lot of experience in c++ and apart from mobile I have interest in opengl and embedded space. So Qt is a natural choice for me.



  • To many post here to see if anyone has mentioned this but a problem may exist with making an official Qt port for Android due to Google who pays for a Qt licence. Pretty sure they use it for their web apps only, so I don't know how that would effect its integration. Guess it would be up to Google and if they want to because of this.

    To the Blackberry comment. They aren't dead just in restructure. Their BB10 is definitely going to be a force when released. But the real power is still in QNX support (which isn't going away anytime soon). Just think of newer trends that are taking off like car apps or the medical field, this is what you can harness from Qt. Qt5 even more cross platform capability.


Log in to reply
 

Looks like your connection to Qt Forum was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.