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Passing data between threads.

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  • jsulmJ jsulm

    @jenya7 I would not invent threads without knowing whether I really need them. Start without threads and see how it works. Only if needed add threads.

    J Offline
    J Offline
    jenya7
    wrote on last edited by
    #6

    @jsulm said in Passing data between threads.:

    @jenya7 I would not invent threads without knowing whether I really need them. Start without threads and see how it works. Only if needed add threads.

    Ok. I'll try.

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • J jenya7

      @KroMignon said in Passing data between threads.:

      @jenya7 said in Passing data between threads.:

      How can I do it? Can it be just a global queue with enqueue/dequeue or I'll get a cross thread exception?

      First questions I have to you:
      a. why do you think you need to use an additional thread?
      b. why not simply use signals/slots mechanism to handle message queue?

      It'll be 3 sockets getting messages at very high rate (streaming video) and putting it into a queue. So I thought it would be better to have a separate thread to pull and parse messages. I have 4 cores so I hope for some parallelism.

      KroMignonK Offline
      KroMignonK Offline
      KroMignon
      wrote on last edited by KroMignon
      #7

      @jenya7 said in Passing data between threads.:

      It'll be 3 sockets getting messages at very high rate (streaming video) and putting it into a queue. So I thought it would be better to have a separate thread to pull and parse messages. I have 4 cores so I hope for some parallelism.

      As @jsulm already wrote, I would also suggest you first to try it out without using additional thread.
      And second, do not use QConcurrent::run() to create a thread, because this thread will not contain an event loop and then you cannot use signals/slots!

      To use additional thread, prefer something like this:

      auto reader = new MyUDP();
      auto thread = new QThread();
      // on thread start, start UDP socket ==> create all QObject there to ensure they are working in the right thread!!
      connect(thread, &QThread::started, reader, &MyUDP::start);
      // on reader end, stop working thread
      connect(reader, &MyUDP::aboutToQuit, thread, &QThread::quit);
      // on working thread end, delete all instances (cleanup)
      connect(thread, &QThread::finished, thread, &QObject::deleteLater);
      connect(thread, &QThread::finished, reader, &QObject::deleteLater);
      
      // start working thread
      thread->start();
      

      It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. (Sherlock Holmes)

      J 1 Reply Last reply
      1
      • KroMignonK KroMignon

        @jenya7 said in Passing data between threads.:

        It'll be 3 sockets getting messages at very high rate (streaming video) and putting it into a queue. So I thought it would be better to have a separate thread to pull and parse messages. I have 4 cores so I hope for some parallelism.

        As @jsulm already wrote, I would also suggest you first to try it out without using additional thread.
        And second, do not use QConcurrent::run() to create a thread, because this thread will not contain an event loop and then you cannot use signals/slots!

        To use additional thread, prefer something like this:

        auto reader = new MyUDP();
        auto thread = new QThread();
        // on thread start, start UDP socket ==> create all QObject there to ensure they are working in the right thread!!
        connect(thread, &QThread::started, reader, &MyUDP::start);
        // on reader end, stop working thread
        connect(reader, &MyUDP::aboutToQuit, thread, &QThread::quit);
        // on working thread end, delete all instances (cleanup)
        connect(thread, &QThread::finished, thread, &QObject::deleteLater);
        connect(thread, &QThread::finished, reader, &QObject::deleteLater);
        
        // start working thread
        thread->start();
        
        J Offline
        J Offline
        jenya7
        wrote on last edited by
        #8

        @KroMignon
        Thank you. And how do I pass a queue between a reader and a consumer (parser) ?

        jsulmJ KroMignonK 2 Replies Last reply
        0
        • J jenya7

          @KroMignon
          Thank you. And how do I pass a queue between a reader and a consumer (parser) ?

          jsulmJ Offline
          jsulmJ Offline
          jsulm
          Lifetime Qt Champion
          wrote on last edited by
          #9

          @jenya7 said in Passing data between threads.:

          And how do I pass a queue between a reader and a consumer (parser) ?

          I suggested to not to pass/share the queue. Instead pass the actual data and manage the queue only where you need it.

          https://forum.qt.io/topic/113070/qt-code-of-conduct

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • J jenya7

            @KroMignon
            Thank you. And how do I pass a queue between a reader and a consumer (parser) ?

            KroMignonK Offline
            KroMignonK Offline
            KroMignon
            wrote on last edited by
            #10

            @jenya7 said in Passing data between threads.:

            Thank you. And how do I pass a queue between a reader and a consumer (parser) ?

            I don't understand why you think you need to use an additional queue?
            Messages are already queued by the UDP socket, why not processing them on reception?

            It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. (Sherlock Holmes)

            J 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • KroMignonK KroMignon

              @jenya7 said in Passing data between threads.:

              Thank you. And how do I pass a queue between a reader and a consumer (parser) ?

              I don't understand why you think you need to use an additional queue?
              Messages are already queued by the UDP socket, why not processing them on reception?

              J Offline
              J Offline
              jenya7
              wrote on last edited by
              #11

              I see. Just can't get rid of embedded programming concepts.

              J 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • J jenya7

                I see. Just can't get rid of embedded programming concepts.

                J Offline
                J Offline
                jenya7
                wrote on last edited by
                #12

                Just to clarify. If I instantiate 3 sockets.

                static MyUDP udp_1;
                static MyUDP udp_2;
                static MyUDP udp_3;
                
                int main(int argc, char *argv[])
                {
                    QCoreApplication a(argc, argv);
                
                    udp_1.Start("192.176.0.1", 8001);
                    udp_2.Start("192.176.0.2", 8002);
                    udp_3.Start("192.176.0.3", 8003);
                
                    return a.exec();
                }
                

                How it gets messages simultaneously in one thread?

                jsulmJ KroMignonK 2 Replies Last reply
                0
                • J jenya7

                  Just to clarify. If I instantiate 3 sockets.

                  static MyUDP udp_1;
                  static MyUDP udp_2;
                  static MyUDP udp_3;
                  
                  int main(int argc, char *argv[])
                  {
                      QCoreApplication a(argc, argv);
                  
                      udp_1.Start("192.176.0.1", 8001);
                      udp_2.Start("192.176.0.2", 8002);
                      udp_3.Start("192.176.0.3", 8003);
                  
                      return a.exec();
                  }
                  

                  How it gets messages simultaneously in one thread?

                  jsulmJ Offline
                  jsulmJ Offline
                  jsulm
                  Lifetime Qt Champion
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #13

                  @jenya7 said in Passing data between threads.:

                  How it gets messages simultaneously in one thread?

                  Please read https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qtnetwork-index.html and https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/signalsandslots.html
                  Qt is an asynchronous framework.

                  https://forum.qt.io/topic/113070/qt-code-of-conduct

                  J 1 Reply Last reply
                  1
                  • jsulmJ jsulm

                    @jenya7 said in Passing data between threads.:

                    How it gets messages simultaneously in one thread?

                    Please read https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qtnetwork-index.html and https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/signalsandslots.html
                    Qt is an asynchronous framework.

                    J Offline
                    J Offline
                    jenya7
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #14

                    @jsulm said in Passing data between threads.:

                    @jenya7 said in Passing data between threads.:

                    How it gets messages simultaneously in one thread?

                    Please read https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qtnetwork-index.html and https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/signalsandslots.html
                    Qt is an asynchronous framework.

                    I see. Looks like Qt takes care 90% of stuff I have to worry in embedded programming. :)

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • J jenya7

                      Just to clarify. If I instantiate 3 sockets.

                      static MyUDP udp_1;
                      static MyUDP udp_2;
                      static MyUDP udp_3;
                      
                      int main(int argc, char *argv[])
                      {
                          QCoreApplication a(argc, argv);
                      
                          udp_1.Start("192.176.0.1", 8001);
                          udp_2.Start("192.176.0.2", 8002);
                          udp_3.Start("192.176.0.3", 8003);
                      
                          return a.exec();
                      }
                      

                      How it gets messages simultaneously in one thread?

                      KroMignonK Offline
                      KroMignonK Offline
                      KroMignon
                      wrote on last edited by KroMignon
                      #15

                      @jenya7 said in Passing data between threads.:

                      Just to clarify. If I instantiate 3 sockets.

                      Please, be kind and never do something like this!!!

                      Never create global static instances of QObject base classes!!!
                      This is not supported be Qt.
                      QApplication, QCodeApplication or QGuiApplication must be create before any other QObject base class instance or your application will crash somehow!

                      Do something like this:

                      int main(int argc, char *argv[])
                      {
                          QCoreApplication a(argc, argv);
                      
                          MyUDP udp_1;
                          MyUDP udp_2;
                          MyUDP udp_3;
                      
                          udp_1.Start("192.176.0.1", 8001);
                          udp_2.Start("192.176.0.2", 8002);
                          udp_3.Start("192.176.0.3", 8003);
                      
                          return a.exec();
                      }
                      

                      It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. (Sherlock Holmes)

                      J 1 Reply Last reply
                      1
                      • KroMignonK KroMignon

                        @jenya7 said in Passing data between threads.:

                        Just to clarify. If I instantiate 3 sockets.

                        Please, be kind and never do something like this!!!

                        Never create global static instances of QObject base classes!!!
                        This is not supported be Qt.
                        QApplication, QCodeApplication or QGuiApplication must be create before any other QObject base class instance or your application will crash somehow!

                        Do something like this:

                        int main(int argc, char *argv[])
                        {
                            QCoreApplication a(argc, argv);
                        
                            MyUDP udp_1;
                            MyUDP udp_2;
                            MyUDP udp_3;
                        
                            udp_1.Start("192.176.0.1", 8001);
                            udp_2.Start("192.176.0.2", 8002);
                            udp_3.Start("192.176.0.3", 8003);
                        
                            return a.exec();
                        }
                        
                        J Offline
                        J Offline
                        jenya7
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #16

                        I added a signal

                        class UDP : public QObject
                        {
                            Q_OBJECT
                        
                            public:
                            UDP(QObject *parent = nullptr);
                        
                             //////////////////////////////////////////////////////
                        
                            signals:
                            void ReadyForReader(const NET_PARAM& param, const QByteArray data);
                        
                            //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
                        };
                        

                        and in a reader I add a slot

                        class READER
                        {
                            public:
                            READER();
                        
                            public slots:
                            void ReadyForReader(const NET_PARAM& param, const QByteArray data);
                        };
                        

                        Now in main

                        static UDP udp_1;
                        static UDP udp_2;
                        
                        static READER reader;
                        
                        int main(int argc, char *argv[])
                        {
                            QCoreApplication a(argc, argv);
                        
                            QObject::connect(&udp_1, &UDP::ReadyForReader, &reader, &READER::ReadyForReader);
                            QObject::connect(&udp_2, &UDP::ReadyForReader, &reader, &READER::ReadyForReader);
                        
                            udp_1.Start("192.176.0.1", 8001);
                            udp_1.Start("192.176.0.2", 8002);
                        
                            return a.exec();
                        }
                        

                        I get

                        C:\Qt\5.12.0\mingw73_64\include\QtCore\qobject.h:250: error: no matching function for call to 'QObject::connectImpl(const Object*&, void**, const Object*&, void**, QtPrivate::QSlotObject<void (READER::)(const NET_PARAM&, QByteArray), QtPrivate::List<const NET_PARAM&, QByteArray>, void>, Qt::ConnectionType&, const int*&, const QMetaObject*)'
                        return connectImpl(sender, reinterpret_cast<void **>(&signal),
                        ~^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        receiver, reinterpret_cast<void **>(&slot),
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        new QtPrivate::QSlotObject<Func2, typename QtPrivate::List_Left<typename SignalType::Arguments, SlotType::ArgumentCount>::Value,
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        typename SignalType::ReturnType>(slot),
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        type, types, &SignalType::Object::staticMetaObject);
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                        What I did wrong?

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • Christian EhrlicherC Offline
                          Christian EhrlicherC Offline
                          Christian Ehrlicher
                          Lifetime Qt Champion
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #17

                          @jenya7 said in Passing data between threads.:

                          static UDP udp_1;
                          static UDP udp_2;

                          static READER reader;

                          Still static...

                          For signals/slots your class must be derived from QObject. Please read the documentation.

                          Qt Online Installer direct download: https://download.qt.io/official_releases/online_installers/
                          Visit the Qt Academy at https://academy.qt.io/catalog

                          J 1 Reply Last reply
                          1
                          • Christian EhrlicherC Christian Ehrlicher

                            @jenya7 said in Passing data between threads.:

                            static UDP udp_1;
                            static UDP udp_2;

                            static READER reader;

                            Still static...

                            For signals/slots your class must be derived from QObject. Please read the documentation.

                            J Offline
                            J Offline
                            jenya7
                            wrote on last edited by jenya7
                            #18

                            @Christian-Ehrlicher
                            Thank you.
                            Without static I get warning - warning: no previous extern declaration for non-static variable 'udp_1'.
                            I can do like this

                            int main(int argc, char *argv[])
                            {
                                UDP udp_1;
                                UDP udp_2;
                            
                                READER reader;
                            
                                QCoreApplication a(argc, argv);
                            
                                QObject::connect(&udp_1, &UDP::ReadyForReader, &reader, &READER::ReadyForReader);
                                QObject::connect(&udp_2, &UDP::ReadyForReader, &reader, &READER::ReadyForReader);
                            
                                udp_1.Start("192.176.0.1", 8001);
                                udp_2.Start("192.176.0.2", 8002);
                            
                                return a.exec();
                            }
                            

                            But this way the objects allocated on stack.

                            Christian EhrlicherC jsulmJ KroMignonK 3 Replies Last reply
                            0
                            • J jenya7

                              @Christian-Ehrlicher
                              Thank you.
                              Without static I get warning - warning: no previous extern declaration for non-static variable 'udp_1'.
                              I can do like this

                              int main(int argc, char *argv[])
                              {
                                  UDP udp_1;
                                  UDP udp_2;
                              
                                  READER reader;
                              
                                  QCoreApplication a(argc, argv);
                              
                                  QObject::connect(&udp_1, &UDP::ReadyForReader, &reader, &READER::ReadyForReader);
                                  QObject::connect(&udp_2, &UDP::ReadyForReader, &reader, &READER::ReadyForReader);
                              
                                  udp_1.Start("192.176.0.1", 8001);
                                  udp_2.Start("192.176.0.2", 8002);
                              
                                  return a.exec();
                              }
                              

                              But this way the objects allocated on stack.

                              Christian EhrlicherC Offline
                              Christian EhrlicherC Offline
                              Christian Ehrlicher
                              Lifetime Qt Champion
                              wrote on last edited by Christian Ehrlicher
                              #19

                              @jenya7 said in Passing data between threads.:

                              But this way the objects allocated on stack.

                              And what's the problem with it? And if it's really a problem (for whatever reason) you can allocate them with new and delete them later on or use a shared_ptr or similar.

                              Qt Online Installer direct download: https://download.qt.io/official_releases/online_installers/
                              Visit the Qt Academy at https://academy.qt.io/catalog

                              J 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • J jenya7

                                @Christian-Ehrlicher
                                Thank you.
                                Without static I get warning - warning: no previous extern declaration for non-static variable 'udp_1'.
                                I can do like this

                                int main(int argc, char *argv[])
                                {
                                    UDP udp_1;
                                    UDP udp_2;
                                
                                    READER reader;
                                
                                    QCoreApplication a(argc, argv);
                                
                                    QObject::connect(&udp_1, &UDP::ReadyForReader, &reader, &READER::ReadyForReader);
                                    QObject::connect(&udp_2, &UDP::ReadyForReader, &reader, &READER::ReadyForReader);
                                
                                    udp_1.Start("192.176.0.1", 8001);
                                    udp_2.Start("192.176.0.2", 8002);
                                
                                    return a.exec();
                                }
                                

                                But this way the objects allocated on stack.

                                jsulmJ Offline
                                jsulmJ Offline
                                jsulm
                                Lifetime Qt Champion
                                wrote on last edited by jsulm
                                #20

                                @jenya7 You should more carefully read what others write!
                                As @KroMignon wrote: all QObject based class instances have to be created AFTER QCoreApplication a(argc, argv)!
                                And as also was mentioned here: your classes have to be subclassed from QObject to use signals/slots. Please read the links I gave you!

                                "no previous extern declaration for non-static variable 'udp_1'." - did you include the header file?

                                https://forum.qt.io/topic/113070/qt-code-of-conduct

                                J 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • jsulmJ jsulm

                                  @jenya7 You should more carefully read what others write!
                                  As @KroMignon wrote: all QObject based class instances have to be created AFTER QCoreApplication a(argc, argv)!
                                  And as also was mentioned here: your classes have to be subclassed from QObject to use signals/slots. Please read the links I gave you!

                                  "no previous extern declaration for non-static variable 'udp_1'." - did you include the header file?

                                  J Offline
                                  J Offline
                                  jenya7
                                  wrote on last edited by jenya7
                                  #21

                                  @jsulm said in Passing data between threads.:

                                  @jenya7 You should more carefully read what others write!
                                  As @KroMignon wrote: all QObject based class instances have to be created AFTER QCoreApplication a(argc, argv)!
                                  And as also was mentioned here: your classes have to be subclassed from QObject to use signals/slots. Please read the links I gave you!

                                  "no previous extern declaration for non-static variable 'udp_1'." - did you include the header file?

                                  I see.
                                  Fixed

                                  class READER : public QObject
                                  {
                                      Q_OBJECT
                                  
                                      public:
                                      READER(QObject *parent = nullptr);
                                  
                                      public slots:
                                      void ReadyForReader(const NET_PARAM& param, const QByteArray data);
                                  };
                                  

                                  And

                                  #include "udp.h"
                                  #include "reader.h"
                                  
                                  int main(int argc, char *argv[])
                                  {
                                      QCoreApplication a(argc, argv);
                                  
                                      UDP udp_1;
                                      UDP udp_2;
                                  
                                      READER reader;
                                  
                                      QObject::connect(&udp_1, &UDP::ReadyForReader, &reader, &READER::ReadyForReader);
                                      QObject::connect(&udp_2, &UDP::ReadyForReader, &reader, &READER::ReadyForReader);
                                  
                                      udp_1.Start("192.176.0.1", 8001);
                                      udp_2.Start("192.176.0.2", 8002);
                                  
                                      return a.exec();
                                  }
                                  

                                  I get - error: undefined reference to `vtable for READER'

                                  jsulmJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • J jenya7

                                    @jsulm said in Passing data between threads.:

                                    @jenya7 You should more carefully read what others write!
                                    As @KroMignon wrote: all QObject based class instances have to be created AFTER QCoreApplication a(argc, argv)!
                                    And as also was mentioned here: your classes have to be subclassed from QObject to use signals/slots. Please read the links I gave you!

                                    "no previous extern declaration for non-static variable 'udp_1'." - did you include the header file?

                                    I see.
                                    Fixed

                                    class READER : public QObject
                                    {
                                        Q_OBJECT
                                    
                                        public:
                                        READER(QObject *parent = nullptr);
                                    
                                        public slots:
                                        void ReadyForReader(const NET_PARAM& param, const QByteArray data);
                                    };
                                    

                                    And

                                    #include "udp.h"
                                    #include "reader.h"
                                    
                                    int main(int argc, char *argv[])
                                    {
                                        QCoreApplication a(argc, argv);
                                    
                                        UDP udp_1;
                                        UDP udp_2;
                                    
                                        READER reader;
                                    
                                        QObject::connect(&udp_1, &UDP::ReadyForReader, &reader, &READER::ReadyForReader);
                                        QObject::connect(&udp_2, &UDP::ReadyForReader, &reader, &READER::ReadyForReader);
                                    
                                        udp_1.Start("192.176.0.1", 8001);
                                        udp_2.Start("192.176.0.2", 8002);
                                    
                                        return a.exec();
                                    }
                                    

                                    I get - error: undefined reference to `vtable for READER'

                                    jsulmJ Offline
                                    jsulmJ Offline
                                    jsulm
                                    Lifetime Qt Champion
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #22

                                    @jenya7 said in Passing data between threads.:

                                    I get - error: undefined reference to `vtable for READER'

                                    Did you put your READER class into its own header file?
                                    If so then please do a complete rebuild:

                                    • Delete build folder
                                    • Run qmake
                                    • Build

                                    https://forum.qt.io/topic/113070/qt-code-of-conduct

                                    J 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • J jenya7

                                      @Christian-Ehrlicher
                                      Thank you.
                                      Without static I get warning - warning: no previous extern declaration for non-static variable 'udp_1'.
                                      I can do like this

                                      int main(int argc, char *argv[])
                                      {
                                          UDP udp_1;
                                          UDP udp_2;
                                      
                                          READER reader;
                                      
                                          QCoreApplication a(argc, argv);
                                      
                                          QObject::connect(&udp_1, &UDP::ReadyForReader, &reader, &READER::ReadyForReader);
                                          QObject::connect(&udp_2, &UDP::ReadyForReader, &reader, &READER::ReadyForReader);
                                      
                                          udp_1.Start("192.176.0.1", 8001);
                                          udp_2.Start("192.176.0.2", 8002);
                                      
                                          return a.exec();
                                      }
                                      

                                      But this way the objects allocated on stack.

                                      KroMignonK Offline
                                      KroMignonK Offline
                                      KroMignon
                                      wrote on last edited by KroMignon
                                      #23

                                      @jenya7 said in Passing data between threads.:

                                      But this way the objects allocated on stack.

                                      Did you read my previous post? Never create QObject based instance before QCoreApplication

                                      It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. (Sherlock Holmes)

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • jsulmJ jsulm

                                        @jenya7 said in Passing data between threads.:

                                        I get - error: undefined reference to `vtable for READER'

                                        Did you put your READER class into its own header file?
                                        If so then please do a complete rebuild:

                                        • Delete build folder
                                        • Run qmake
                                        • Build
                                        J Offline
                                        J Offline
                                        jenya7
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #24

                                        @jsulm said in Passing data between threads.:

                                        @jenya7 said in Passing data between threads.:

                                        I get - error: undefined reference to `vtable for READER'

                                        Did you put your READER class into its own header file?
                                        If so then please do a complete rebuild:

                                        • Delete build folder
                                        • Run qmake
                                        • Build

                                        Yes. I do - Add->Class and it generates reader.cpp and reader.h.
                                        Thank you. Now it's OK.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • Christian EhrlicherC Christian Ehrlicher

                                          @jenya7 said in Passing data between threads.:

                                          But this way the objects allocated on stack.

                                          And what's the problem with it? And if it's really a problem (for whatever reason) you can allocate them with new and delete them later on or use a shared_ptr or similar.

                                          J Offline
                                          J Offline
                                          jenya7
                                          wrote on last edited by jenya7
                                          #25

                                          @Christian-Ehrlicher said in Passing data between threads.:

                                          @jenya7 said in Passing data between threads.:

                                          But this way the objects allocated on stack.

                                          And what's the problem with it?

                                          I don't know how the stack is configured and managed in a regular PC but in embedded systems it's a precious resource and there are many chances to run into a stack overflow.

                                          Christian EhrlicherC 1 Reply Last reply
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