Why is QT so expensive? 5000+ dollar a year
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@JonB said in Why is QT so expensive? 5000+ dollar a year:
In a word, are you saying that similar-ish licensing issues apply to that as to Qt, give or take?
The wxwidgets license is identical to the Qt LGPL option barring one detail:
To comply with LGPL, if you make changes to the code of Qt itself you are forced to
submit that change upstream and get it integrated with the public version of Qtpublish them so any 3rd party could recompile Qt with your changes. If you make a change to the code of wxwidgets you can compile against this modified version and distribute your software without the need of upstream integration.To remove this free-inspired restriction on Qt you need to buy a commercial license.
Edit: thanks @SGaist
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@coders You don't have to pay anything as long as you don't violate LGPL3 license...
"Simply put, this is how it works: In return for the value you receive from using Qt to create your application, you are expected to give back by contributing to Qt or buying Qt." - this is not something you must do. As I said - as long as LGPL3 is fine for you you do not have to contribute or pay.@jsulm You make it sound so simple but the reality is that in the "web world" companies can passively aggressively coerce folks into paying for a commercial license or support contract simply by not making the open source easily accessible on their website. Isn't required accounts on the Qt site a step in that direction?
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@VRonin IIRC, under LGPL, you have to publish the changes you made to the framework/library so people can re-build the same version as you but it does not mean that you have to upstream them (although it would be better for everybody if for example it's a bug fix).
@Kent-Dorfman the code itself is freely accessible on https://code.qt.io, the Qt account is currently required for the pre-built package installation.
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Please read the Qt Code of Conduct - https://forum.qt.io/topic/113070/qt-code-of-conduct -
@VRonin IIRC, under LGPL, you have to publish the changes you made to the framework/library so people can re-build the same version as you but it does not mean that you have to upstream them (although it would be better for everybody if for example it's a bug fix).
@Kent-Dorfman the code itself is freely accessible on https://code.qt.io, the Qt account is currently required for the pre-built package installation.
@SGaist While I have no evidence in the past year or so, I recall that looking on the public Qt website a year or so ago simply caused the user to go in circles for hours without easily locating the "source code" link. That is my point about coercive behaviour of companies. They often make it difficult or impossible to find the OS source if they have something commercial to sell.
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Then it's way simpler now:
https://www.qt.io/developers -> Building Qt from GIT and there you have the links. -
@Pl45m4 ,
That is infact the problem.
If you make an app like Wattsapp... Or a Windows 10 ultimate Rat Killer... in the future...
How much will you pay to QT every year?That's the only reason i quited QT and started at zero with CodeBlocks.
But i have no regret so far.
Just learning more of the std:: lib's. And trying to code more universal C++. QT was a nice learning curve, and there is lot's of info if you are a newbie.@coders said in Why is QT so expensive? 5000+ dollar a year:
If you make an app like Wattsapp... Or a Windows 10 ultimate Rat Killer... in the future...
How much will you pay to QT every year?Are you willing to buy some tools at Home Depot to build a shop or office where later on you'll earn money running your business (i.e. attorney, beauty shop, etc)?
If the answer is yes, why you're not willing to buy some tools (Qt framework) that will allow you to earn lots of money later on ("Windows 10 ultimate Rat Killer")
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@VRonin IIRC, under LGPL, you have to publish the changes you made to the framework/library so people can re-build the same version as you but it does not mean that you have to upstream them (although it would be better for everybody if for example it's a bug fix).
@Kent-Dorfman the code itself is freely accessible on https://code.qt.io, the Qt account is currently required for the pre-built package installation.
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I do agree that wxWidgets' license is easier to comply with (as it is a modified LGPL). However, provided you comply with the LGPL (which basically means that you need your own copy of the Qt source code + some minor things) you can use it in your commercial projects forever for free. The Qt company is currently heavily coercing users into bying licenses, but I guess they will never sue you in court over LGPL abuse. (I guess people would know if there were any precedent for any LGPL violation (in the sense that Qt users fear) of any software.)
I have worked with both Qt and wxWidgets and I have to say that the two are not comparable at all. wxWidgets is really hard to learn and to use because the documentation is a lot worse than Qt's. There is no common tool for generating UIs like Qt's Designer (there are several incompatible tools which might be discontinued at any point). Also, wxWidgets directly draws on the screen whereas Qt always uses double buffering (which actually gives you more restrictions). Dynamic layouts are a lot easier with Qt.
We are currently converting our software from wxWidgets to Qt because Qt is more powerful. One of the other reasons is Qt stylesheets so that we can have a dark mode in our software now (and not only some distant time in the future). Our source code has become cleaner in a lot of cases because of the internal structure of Qt vs. wxWidgets.
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@coders has decided to go with wxWidgets and it is perfectly fine. Software freedom means also being free to migrate. If one thinks Qt is not a good fit for a software, better to find a more suitable framework.
It is clear her/his trolling attitude (because the tone is not oriented towards a sane discussion [see a thread with a different attitude by @utcenter, while delivering the same complaints], but seems more to be "you fool guys/gals using Qt"). So what is the point to continue to argue with him/her?
Regarding the expensiveness, I personally think that, modulo the recent news, it has a raison d'être: it introduces a feedback cycle with a goal of spreading free software.
Let me elaborate:- If one is willing to afford commercial license, it is clear that it plans to make way more money than the license price, so Qt employees (whose work is bought) are paid and can live, and also the community benefits from that.
- If one is NOT willing to pay, you have the option to foster the open source ecosystem directly (GPL) or indirectly (LGPL). If these options were not available, chance is that the enourmous and passionate Qt community would never form, and way less people on the market would know the framework (and I think, given its size, it would be way more buggy than it is).
- I personally think that the small business license introduced recently will be a failure (too much restrictitive for "Western" countries), mainly because it outright ignores purchasing power. If ones looks at the chart and multiplies by 30 the average gross monthly income (12 months/year * 2,5 to accomodate for taxes on business revenue (in addition to income ones) and other expenses to run business, including hardware, offices, licenses, & co.) only Eastern Europe businesses could sustain more than one developer, and most Western Europe one-person businesses would not qualify.
- OTOH I'm perfectly fine with trading closed-sourceness and license costs.
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@coders has decided to go with wxWidgets and it is perfectly fine. Software freedom means also being free to migrate. If one thinks Qt is not a good fit for a software, better to find a more suitable framework.
It is clear her/his trolling attitude (because the tone is not oriented towards a sane discussion [see a thread with a different attitude by @utcenter, while delivering the same complaints], but seems more to be "you fool guys/gals using Qt"). So what is the point to continue to argue with him/her?
Regarding the expensiveness, I personally think that, modulo the recent news, it has a raison d'être: it introduces a feedback cycle with a goal of spreading free software.
Let me elaborate:- If one is willing to afford commercial license, it is clear that it plans to make way more money than the license price, so Qt employees (whose work is bought) are paid and can live, and also the community benefits from that.
- If one is NOT willing to pay, you have the option to foster the open source ecosystem directly (GPL) or indirectly (LGPL). If these options were not available, chance is that the enourmous and passionate Qt community would never form, and way less people on the market would know the framework (and I think, given its size, it would be way more buggy than it is).
- I personally think that the small business license introduced recently will be a failure (too much restrictitive for "Western" countries), mainly because it outright ignores purchasing power. If ones looks at the chart and multiplies by 30 the average gross monthly income (12 months/year * 2,5 to accomodate for taxes on business revenue (in addition to income ones) and other expenses to run business, including hardware, offices, licenses, & co.) only Eastern Europe businesses could sustain more than one developer, and most Western Europe one-person businesses would not qualify.
- OTOH I'm perfectly fine with trading closed-sourceness and license costs.
@Astrinus said in Why is QT so expensive? 5000+ dollar a year:
only Eastern Europe businesses could sustain more than one developer, and most Western Europe one-person businesses would not qualify.
Not exactly true. Even here in the wild east that turnover is laughable for anything more than 1-2 devs.
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@Astrinus said in Why is QT so expensive? 5000+ dollar a year:
only Eastern Europe businesses could sustain more than one developer, and most Western Europe one-person businesses would not qualify.
Not exactly true. Even here in the wild east that turnover is laughable for anything more than 1-2 devs.
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@kshegunov well, two is more than one ;-)
@Astrinus said in Why is QT so expensive? 5000+ dollar a year:
well, two is more than one
True enough, although even two is rather pushing it. :)
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@FPChris said in Why is QT so expensive? 5000+ dollar a year:
I miss the days of paying $250 or LESS for an IDE and you're good to go.
You don't have to pay anything for the IDE at all. You mix up Qt (Framework library) and QtCreator (IDE) but I think you know this already since you only registered here to spam around.
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I realize this is an old thread, but my words are suited for it.
I use wxWidgets because my understanding is that if I create an application from the Qt Community Edition (no source code changed) that I, let's say, make millions from, the good folks at Qt will have their hands out for a piece of the pie, unlike wxWidgets. True?
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No, it's wrong.
Check the licences again.
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I realize this is an old thread, but my words are suited for it.
I use wxWidgets because my understanding is that if I create an application from the Qt Community Edition (no source code changed) that I, let's say, make millions from, the good folks at Qt will have their hands out for a piece of the pie, unlike wxWidgets. True?
@Driftwood said in Why is QT so expensive? 5000+ dollar a year:
my understanding is that if I create an application from the Qt Community Edition (no source code changed) that I, let's say, make millions from, the good folks at Qt will have their hands out for a piece of the pie
No, the community edition is licensed under the GPL/LGPL. This is free as in "free speech" and "free beer".
Qt Doc Search for browsers: forum.qt.io/topic/35616/web-browser-extension-for-improved-doc-searches
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@Driftwood said in Why is QT so expensive? 5000+ dollar a year:
my understanding is that if I create an application from the Qt Community Edition (no source code changed) that I, let's say, make millions from, the good folks at Qt will have their hands out for a piece of the pie
No, the community edition is licensed under the GPL/LGPL. This is free as in "free speech" and "free beer".
@JKSH said in Why is QT so expensive? 5000+ dollar a year:
free beer
Did someone mention "free beer"?! 😆
Edit:
To make this comment at least a bit useful:
I would say "free beer" is not comparable to "free Qt". Once you got your beer, you can do whatever you like... drink it, toss it (what monster would do that?!) or mix it with other stuff ("change").
under the free Qt licence, you cannot do whatever you like (in terms of "changes" to the Qt source, for example) -
@Driftwood said in Why is QT so expensive? 5000+ dollar a year:
my understanding is that if I create an application from the Qt Community Edition (no source code changed) that I, let's say, make millions from, the good folks at Qt will have their hands out for a piece of the pie
No, the community edition is licensed under the GPL/LGPL. This is free as in "free speech" and "free beer".
@JKSH said in Why is QT so expensive? 5000+ dollar a year:
No, the community edition is licensed under the GPL/LGPL. This is free as in "free speech" and "free beer".
The meaning of "free speech" has been seriously perverted in 21st century USA, so probably not a good example...and "free beer" usually has strings attached:
- listen to my sad story and pity me
- support my political candidate
- I don't want to get in trouble by myself,
etc.
so perhaps a better analogy, due to the "strings attached" in the GPL.
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@JKSH said in Why is QT so expensive? 5000+ dollar a year:
free beer
Did someone mention "free beer"?! 😆
Edit:
To make this comment at least a bit useful:
I would say "free beer" is not comparable to "free Qt". Once you got your beer, you can do whatever you like... drink it, toss it (what monster would do that?!) or mix it with other stuff ("change").
under the free Qt licence, you cannot do whatever you like (in terms of "changes" to the Qt source, for example)@Pl45m4 said in Why is QT so expensive? 5000+ dollar a year:
Did someone mention "free beer"?! 😆
Sure did! 🍺
The under the free Qt licence, you cannot do whatever you like (in terms of "changes" to the Qt source, for example)
That is the whole point of copyleft licenses -- to provide freedoms for the end-users (as opposed to the developers) of software.
Traditionally, proprietary software licenses/EULAs heavily favour the developers but heavily restrict the end-users. It's like the end-users buy a car but are not allowed to tinker with it, pimp it, or even make repairs. The GPL license was created to shift the power balance from the developers to the end-users.
Of course, traditional developers didn't like that so the LGPL was created as a compromise: When using a library (including Qt) under the LGPL, developers are allowed to do whatever they like with their own code; they just need to ensure that the end-users can do whatever they like with the LGPL'ed part.
Once you got your beer, you can do whatever you like... drink it, toss it (what monster would do that?!) or mix it with other stuff ("change").
You can certainly re-mix the Qt source code (or any other LGPL'ed source code) however you like. You just need to share your new brew's recipe with your end-users.
