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How to hide shared memory ?

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  • A Offline
    A Offline
    Asperamanca
    wrote on last edited by
    #3

    You may find this interesting:
    https://blog.qt.io/blog/2018/01/11/protecting-qt-application-device-hacking-part-1/
    and
    https://blog.qt.io/blog/2018/02/21/protecting-qt-application-device-hacking-part-2/

    1 Reply Last reply
    3
    • jondoeJ jondoe

      hello,
      How to hide shared memory ? For example I getting web site content from url but I see this url in my program when I searching with memory scanner. How can I hide this strings ? Encpryt working when dont working program but when working program crypt dont working because program making decrypt and using string and adding this string to memory and I see this string with memory scanner. How can I hide ?

      JonBJ Online
      JonBJ Online
      JonB
      wrote on last edited by
      #4

      @jondoe
      Although you should indeed read @Asperamanca's references, be aware there is nothing at all there which would address your query about scanning memory for strings (nor would I expect there to be), it's aimed more at obfuscating your source code, which is quite different.

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • ? Offline
        ? Offline
        A Former User
        wrote on last edited by
        #5

        @jondoe

        @jondoe said in How to hide shared memory ?:

        I getting web site content from url but I see this url in my program when I searching with memory scanner.

        i have a solution but it's not 100% secure
        you can encode your url with Base64 encoding
        when you need to use it just decode it

        aha_1980A 1 Reply Last reply
        1
        • ? A Former User

          @jondoe

          @jondoe said in How to hide shared memory ?:

          I getting web site content from url but I see this url in my program when I searching with memory scanner.

          i have a solution but it's not 100% secure
          you can encode your url with Base64 encoding
          when you need to use it just decode it

          aha_1980A Offline
          aha_1980A Offline
          aha_1980
          Lifetime Qt Champion
          wrote on last edited by aha_1980
          #6

          @davidlabib

          What are you trying to achive? If someone has access to your machine, its nearly useless to hide anything.

          1. I can decode Base64 without problems
          2. When you need it, you decode it. Where is it stored? In memory? I can read it.
          3. You do a network request. I can capture all you network requests with Wireshark.

          There is no safety if I have access to your machine.

          Regards

          Qt has to stay free or it will die.

          ? 1 Reply Last reply
          5
          • aha_1980A aha_1980

            @davidlabib

            What are you trying to achive? If someone has access to your machine, its nearly useless to hide anything.

            1. I can decode Base64 without problems
            2. When you need it, you decode it. Where is it stored? In memory? I can read it.
            3. You do a network request. I can capture all you network requests with Wireshark.

            There is no safety if I have access to your machine.

            Regards

            ? Offline
            ? Offline
            A Former User
            wrote on last edited by
            #7

            @aha_1980

            @jondoe said in How to hide shared memory ?:

            I getting web site content from url but I see this url in my program when I searching with memory scanner.

            He said memory scanner not network scanner

            @aha_1980 said in How to hide shared memory ?:

            1. You do a network request. I can capture all you network requests with Wireshark.

            @aha_1980 said in How to hide shared memory ?:

            1. I can decode Base64 without problems

            any one can decode base64 easily that's why i said "i have a solution but it's not 100% secure"

            @aha_1980 said in How to hide shared memory ?:

            1. When you need it, you decode it. Where is it stored? In memory? I can read it.

            you can read it but it will be base64
            you will not know that this is the url unless you decode it

            I am not an expert but these answers are as far as I know

            jsulmJ 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • ? A Former User

              @aha_1980

              @jondoe said in How to hide shared memory ?:

              I getting web site content from url but I see this url in my program when I searching with memory scanner.

              He said memory scanner not network scanner

              @aha_1980 said in How to hide shared memory ?:

              1. You do a network request. I can capture all you network requests with Wireshark.

              @aha_1980 said in How to hide shared memory ?:

              1. I can decode Base64 without problems

              any one can decode base64 easily that's why i said "i have a solution but it's not 100% secure"

              @aha_1980 said in How to hide shared memory ?:

              1. When you need it, you decode it. Where is it stored? In memory? I can read it.

              you can read it but it will be base64
              you will not know that this is the url unless you decode it

              I am not an expert but these answers are as far as I know

              jsulmJ Offline
              jsulmJ Offline
              jsulm
              Lifetime Qt Champion
              wrote on last edited by
              #8

              @davidlabib said in How to hide shared memory ?:

              you can read it but it will be base64

              But YOUR application will decode it before using, right? At that point it is NOT encoded anymore.

              https://forum.qt.io/topic/113070/qt-code-of-conduct

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              1
              • ? Offline
                ? Offline
                A Former User
                wrote on last edited by
                #9

                @jsulm
                See this code

                //Encodeing the the url
                QByteArray url;
                url = “http://www.example.org”;
                QByteArray b64 = url.toBase64();
                //Show the encoded url
                qDebug() << b64; // "aHR0cDovL3d3dy5leGFtcGxlLm9yZw==”
                //Show the decoded url without puting it in a variable
                qDebug() << QByteArray::fromBase64(b64); // “http://www.example.org”

                He can use "QByteArray::fromBase64(b64)" as it's every time you need to decode without puting it in a variable
                So it will not be in the stack

                I didn't test the code it might be wrong but this just to simplification my idea

                jsulmJ JonBJ 2 Replies Last reply
                0
                • ? A Former User

                  @jsulm
                  See this code

                  //Encodeing the the url
                  QByteArray url;
                  url = “http://www.example.org”;
                  QByteArray b64 = url.toBase64();
                  //Show the encoded url
                  qDebug() << b64; // "aHR0cDovL3d3dy5leGFtcGxlLm9yZw==”
                  //Show the decoded url without puting it in a variable
                  qDebug() << QByteArray::fromBase64(b64); // “http://www.example.org”

                  He can use "QByteArray::fromBase64(b64)" as it's every time you need to decode without puting it in a variable
                  So it will not be in the stack

                  I didn't test the code it might be wrong but this just to simplification my idea

                  jsulmJ Offline
                  jsulmJ Offline
                  jsulm
                  Lifetime Qt Champion
                  wrote on last edited by jsulm
                  #10

                  @davidlabib said in How to hide shared memory ?:

                  So it will not be in the stack

                  It will be there. fromBase64 returns a QByteArray and on most platforms it will be returned using stack. And the byte array containing the actual data will be on the heap as far as I know.
                  And stack is not only memory you have (there is heap as well).
                  But more important: this is rather trivial example. To use a URL you would need to pass it to some functions...

                  https://forum.qt.io/topic/113070/qt-code-of-conduct

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  1
                  • ? A Former User

                    @jsulm
                    See this code

                    //Encodeing the the url
                    QByteArray url;
                    url = “http://www.example.org”;
                    QByteArray b64 = url.toBase64();
                    //Show the encoded url
                    qDebug() << b64; // "aHR0cDovL3d3dy5leGFtcGxlLm9yZw==”
                    //Show the decoded url without puting it in a variable
                    qDebug() << QByteArray::fromBase64(b64); // “http://www.example.org”

                    He can use "QByteArray::fromBase64(b64)" as it's every time you need to decode without puting it in a variable
                    So it will not be in the stack

                    I didn't test the code it might be wrong but this just to simplification my idea

                    JonBJ Online
                    JonBJ Online
                    JonB
                    wrote on last edited by JonB
                    #11

                    @davidlabib
                    The user asked about someone not being able to recognise strings with a memory scanner or similar. Are you aware that as soon as you write the line in your code:

                    url = “http://www.example.org”;
                    

                    that string is compiled into the executable's data area (rather than the stack/heap)? It does not matter that afterward you .toBase64() it. That means I can just strings on your executable and see it, or I can scan memory at runtime to see it....

                    If you really wanted to bother doing this, the correct way is to do the toBase64(); manually at development time and then store the encoded string as a literal in the code, not the plain text. Which is an awful lot of hassle....

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                    2
                    • ? Offline
                      ? Offline
                      A Former User
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #12

                      @jsulm yes i know heap but stack is most used
                      @JonB I wasn't know about the executable area
                      I built my idea without considering the executable area

                      jsulmJ 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • ? A Former User

                        @jsulm yes i know heap but stack is most used
                        @JonB I wasn't know about the executable area
                        I built my idea without considering the executable area

                        jsulmJ Offline
                        jsulmJ Offline
                        jsulm
                        Lifetime Qt Champion
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #13

                        @davidlabib said in How to hide shared memory ?:

                        yes i know heap but stack is most used

                        It doesn't matter what is most used, as soon as it is as clear text somewhere in the memory you can read it

                        https://forum.qt.io/topic/113070/qt-code-of-conduct

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                        1
                        • ? Offline
                          ? Offline
                          A Former User
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #14

                          In general I have explained my idea that may be right or wrong

                          JonBJ 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • ? A Former User

                            In general I have explained my idea that may be right or wrong

                            JonBJ Online
                            JonBJ Online
                            JonB
                            wrote on last edited by JonB
                            #15

                            @davidlabib
                            As I said, if you/the OP does want to use that idea, and expect any kind of hidden, you must implement it by doing the url.toBase64(); manually yourself outside of your app at design-time when you are writing the code, and then put the encoded result into your source code appropriately. Then the runtime code calls just the fromBase64() when it needs to decode the string temporarily.

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                            0
                            • ? Offline
                              ? Offline
                              A Former User
                              wrote on last edited by A Former User
                              #16

                              I think that my idea is not a good idea even after @JonB editing, Is there are more efficient way to solve the problem?

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                              0
                              • VRoninV Offline
                                VRoninV Offline
                                VRonin
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #17

                                Another idea is to scramble your string around the memory so that a memory scanner can't easily work the order out. QString and QByteArray use adjacent memory segments.

                                QVector<QChar*> urlString{{ 
                                , new QChar('h')
                                , new QChar('t')
                                , new QChar('t')
                                , new QChar('p')
                                , new QChar(':')
                                , new QChar('/')
                                , new QChar('/')
                                , new QChar('w')
                                , new QChar('w')
                                , new QChar('w')
                                , new QChar('.')
                                , new QChar('e')
                                , new QChar('x')
                                , new QChar('a')
                                , new QChar('m')
                                , new QChar('p')
                                , new QChar('l')
                                , new QChar('e')
                                , new QChar('.')
                                , new QChar('o')
                                , new QChar('r')
                                , new QChar('g')
                                }};
                                

                                Should not be readable by a memory scanner

                                "La mort n'est rien, mais vivre vaincu et sans gloire, c'est mourir tous les jours"
                                ~Napoleon Bonaparte

                                On a crusade to banish setIndexWidget() from the holy land of Qt

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