Qt and Nokia’s new strategy



  • So Nokia finally made its announcement about future strategy and marriage with Microsoft, creating one big "happy" family that they call ecosystem :( . It seems there is not so much space left for QT in it. Whats NEXT? Our company made investment in developing software on QT for a desktop ... and now this fundamental base started to shake. If Qt is no more a priority, what about next releases and updates, what about bug fixes and support ... and finally what about innovation on QT platform. This was not cleared yet and we need answers.

    As a personal user it seems I'll say bye bye to Nokia ... It's enough for me for this mess ... I invested much time in QT and mobile platform ... and now I have to drop everything in trashcan because there is no more meaning and future ... THANKS NOKIA



  • the same :(



  • i would be interested to hear what a troll has to say about this...



  • Please tell me that I haven't loosed 6 years of my life with Qt...



  • The Trolls I've talked to today don't know any more than what is made public on the press releases.


  • Moderators

    "This morning’s strategy announcement was a significant shift for Nokia, and all of the parts within Nokia, including Qt.

    Given the many implications of this strategy change, we are taking a little bit of time before we contact all of our stakeholders to talk directly with them about what it all means."

    I would like to point out though that your investments into Qt are secure, independent of what Nokia will do. The whole code is available to you after all. Nobody can take what is released under LGPL (or whichever licensing option you took) away from you.



  • All articles in "conversations.nokia.com":conversations.nokia.com doesn't talk about Qt...

    In LGPL we trust...!



  • Ok it's LGPL ... but if there is no more evolution and maintenance, it's the end .. I am afraid... What's happen today clearly said that Trolltech need to be an independant (perhaps fundation ?) company (no more dependant on manufacturer) and Nokia is for sure not the good bet ... Trolltech need to be self profitable and now that it's LGPL it's for sure no more the case.



  • In may point of view having investor for Qt was (or IS???) a big thing. Qt changed quite a lot comparing what was before acquisition, and most of these changes were welcomed (like LGPL ...). Yes, I hope and believe that Qt will not dye. In worsest case community will keep it alive. But without major investor it would be much harder to maintain innovation speed and penetration to new platforms, especially mobile ones.
    But in either case ... be strong QT ...



  • [quote author="Tobias Hunger" date="1297431339"]"This morning’s strategy announcement was a significant shift for Nokia, and all of the parts within Nokia, including Qt.

    Given the many implications of this strategy change, we are talking a little bit of time before we contact all of our stakeholders to talk directly with them about what it all means."

    I would like to point out though that your investments into Qt are secure, independent of what Nokia will do. The whole code is available to you after all. Nobody can take what is released under LGPL (or whichever licensing option you took) away from you.[/quote]

    This is more about mobile platform; for desktop KDE, if no one else, will atleast maintain Qt, but for mobile platform I doubt no company will pick up the maintenance if it isn’t main platform of a device.

    I’d like to point out that in one of those announcements was mention that Qt isn’t dropped (now) and Meego will use it whereas it will be used in Symbian too. It looked like it won’t get into WP7, but we can hope for it, I hope.

    Losing great contributions of trolls to desktop Qt is huge drawback though, so I don’t want Nokia really discontinuing Qt... Or selling / transferring rights of code to some other company.

    But I hope all of you remember that Nokia is not Trolltech; a company who lives from Qt. Nokia lives from mobile phones; I suppose Ovi Market isn’t that profitable like Android’s or Apple’s alternatives are.



  • Wow, you sound like the end is near. It's not. Things are admittedly tricky over here right now but so far, we have no indication of Qt going away or let alone being discontinued. We need clarification in many areas but for now, we're doing business as usual.

    The communications team is preparing messages and I hope I can share some more information soon. Ideally, over the weekend.



  • Hopes ... but ...
    at short term, qt will continue .. for sure ... Elop needs you for the transition ... But after...
    For small company like mine, It's very disturbing to read Nokia new Roadmap ... I have invested since years in Qt ... and I see no commercial raison (the new roadmap for Nokia ...is clearly not technicall but just commercial ) why Nokia will continue Desktop and mobile Qt platform ... in fact good day for microsoft : find a way to sell wP7, kill meego and symbian and kill the only good commercial C++ platform ... viva dotnet ...

    Hopes you can communicate on news that we can trust (see previous communication about meego and symbian ... http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Porting_Android_(Java)_applications_to_S60_5th_Edition

    I suppose now we will have porting Qt app to .Net



  • Yep, maybe in some places there is too much drama but developer moods are not at the best ... it is as is ...
    We'll welcome all the news that says any official position about this situation.





  • Okay, look. I know nobody is happy about this. I also know that you worry about where we're going. You may have bet your business on Qt. But so have we. I am confident enough that we will see a solution soon.





  • It's interesting. This move was really inevitable or it's because Elop is former employee of Microsoft ... of course stupid question, we'll never know the truth ... but its in my mind...

    I remembered some time ago there was a message from outgoing Nokia CEO saying:

    bq. Anssi Vanjoki, outgoing head of Nokia’s smartphone division, likens mobile phone makers that adopt Google’s software to Finnish boys who”pee in their pants” for warmth in the winter. Temporary relief is followed by an even worse predicament.

    So it seems Nokia started to pee also ...



  • I think that this period of time (just after the announcement of the new strategy) is a time to wait! I hope that Qt will evolve (once more) and adapt to the new status quo. We will just have to wait. :)



  • If there would be silence, you could start thinking that everybody is happy about this ...



  • Algirdasss that was the quote that I've just quoted in another forum about 5 second ago :) I totally agree.



  • [quote author="Algirdasss" date="1297439162"]If there would be silence, you could start thinking that everybody is happy about this ... [/quote]

    I was not commenting against posting opinions. I was just commenting against not-well-thought-decisions: you don't give up on an investment* so "easy". ;)

    *learning a framework is an investment



  • Yep, head is too hot to make good decisions today. Obviously our company will continue on Qt, because price is too hight to move (and thats makes me nervous) ... at least for nearest future. Besides I started making some program on QT for mobile devices. But after todays announcement I started to lean to Android ... that was always my second choice after Nokia's former ecosystem:)



  • Mixed feelings ...

    I'm a desktop developer with Qt, so my perspective is a little skewed towards that functionality. I feel like Qt has made some interesting improvements since being purchased by Nokia. Going LGPL certainly made things easier and QML has looked really interesting. My problem with the direction was that toolkit development was definitely focusing on the mobile side of things and just getting the cool new stuff to work on the desktop was frustrating.

    Whatever the future brings, I hope that QML will not fade away (what a waste that would be). I would never rule anything out, but as of now, mobile development on Qt does not have a very promising near future (and near future is everything in mobile development). Lets face it, there is no future for Qt on mobile platforms under Nokia. The best we can hope for if Qt stays with Nokia is a renewed concentration on desktop applications and continued playtime with Meego.

    Qt is suddenly in a toxic environment analogous to the environment Nokia is trying to get out of. I think Nokia is making a smart move. They have to do this to compete. There is no more time to waste. Hopefully they will make the proper decision to move on from Qt (and soon) if it does not figure to play a major role in their strategy. Under the current circumstances, Qt needs a new home where trolls and community members can embrace and extend the great work done with Qt 4 and QML in a timely manner.



  • When I spoke with one of the Qt developers on the last Qt developer days in munich I mentioned my fear that with Elop we might see a significant strategic change towards WM7 considering the slow development pace of Qt Quick / Meego / Symbian(^4). Unfortunately my fear was not totally unjust.

    Whilst Android/iOS devices sold like crazy some of the technical sessions during DD were about unfinished basic widget animation stuff (cool stuff actually, but not ready for primetime). Casually following the Components mailing list I would say it still is not ready yet.

    I don't want to know how much pressure was on the Trolls. But obviously they did not deliver an environment that is needed by Nokia to offer competitive devices now.

    Nokia exists to make money. If they support an open source system it's because they hope to make money with that. If they don't they'll drop it. Simple as that. That doesn't mean that I think Elops decision for WM7 is right, I just respect his decision.

    I feel sorry for the Trolls though. It's quite a slap in the face.

    I hope Qt will have a bright future on the desktop and maybe with future Meego devices because I really like the toolkit and I like the Trolls.

    Nils



  • I'm also very afraid of the Qt future. I chose Qt because of its good support for all platforms (Linux, Mac OS, Windows, etc.), and because of the good directions Nokia gave to it. But now that Microsoft and Nokia have that partnership, we all know what Microsoft want from its partners: to emphasize the support for its platforms and try to forget the other ones.

    Yes, Qt is LGPL. If something wrong happen to it, we can fork it. But fragmentation isn't a good thing.

    I really want to be wrong, the time will tell us what will be the future of Qt.



  • [quote author="qtnext" date="1297436063"]Hopes ... but ...
    at short term, qt will continue .. for sure ... Elop needs you for the transition ... But after...
    For small company like mine, It's very disturbing to read Nokia new Roadmap ... I have invested since years in Qt ... and I see no commercial raison (the new roadmap for Nokia ...is clearly not technicall but just commercial ) why Nokia will continue Desktop and mobile Qt platform ... in fact good day for microsoft : find a way to sell wP7, kill meego and symbian and kill the only good commercial C++ platform ... viva dotnet ...
    [/quote]

    Kind of true, but, lets wait.
    Nokia is not the only company using Qt, also a Fork could happen. Ubuntu already supports Qt, maybe we see a Phone from them soon, (there rumors about that too ;)).

    Also, afaik Qt is not owned by Nokia:
    http://www.kde.org/community/whatiskde/kdefreeqtfoundation.php

    Qt is free.
    If Google is smart, they will support the Lighthouse Project on Android, and make Qt work well on Android, this would be really bad for Nokia ;)



  • I hope Canonical forks Qt.

    I can't see how Microsoft... I mean Nokia have any interest in Qt, it's all about .NET now. They have successfully shutdown MeeGo, an open source system which could have been a threat for WP7.

    Canonical is quite involved in Linaro and they have also shown interest in starting to use Qt.

    I can't see why Google should have any interest in Qt since they already have a large developer base and a growing market place. Obviously there were many JavaME developer out there which was looking for something better :)



  • [quote author="Duff" date="1297443576"]Mixed feelings ...

    I'm a desktop developer with Qt,... My problem with the direction was that toolkit development was definitely focusing on the mobile side of things and just getting the cool new stuff to work on the desktop was frustrating.
    ... Under the current circumstances, Qt needs a new home where trolls and community members can embrace and extend the great work done with Qt 4 and QML in a timely manner.

    [/quote]

    I work for ICS and we've also been frustrated with the lack of attention that's been paid to Qt desktop. We've been considering a maintenance offering with extended features to support Qt desktop, such as updating and maintaining features and tools to keep pace, but we'd need a critical mass of companies to sign up in order to justify the investment in time and resources on our side. Is that something your company might be interested in?



  • I hope that now the development of the port for Android, and ios going full speed. Rather the developers were waiting for a visual signal from Nokia. Now there is no competition.

    P.S.: sorry about English, it's google translate, but i hope you understand what i talking about.



  • http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/nokia_microsoft_deal_confirmed_5_key_questions.php

    This just occurred to me.

    If this is true, and things goes like Elop wants, I suppose mobile Qt is quite dead. Including Meego.

    Now waiting next piece of news...

    This Free Qt Foundation is basis for some real support for Qt, even if Nokia refuses to do anything. Time will show how it’ll go...



  • Ok,

    Finally we even have some official position form Qt itself. But in reality nothing changed, nothing cleared... It's interesting they believe in what they say or it's just an official company (Nokia) position.
    You know, what is very important in business is reliance. Lot of important decisions are made in the business world having guarantees based only on mutual trust between partners. And what is pity is that Nokia has broken this trust based connection between company and it's partners and developers. From now I don't trust in any word that is said by this company. It may say one thing and do another, and that was proven recently.
    I think this announcement in London was quite brutal and unwise. It was good for Microsoft because they shouted very loudly - hey hey, we have strong partner and we will fight back in mobile market that we lost already. But that wasn't good for Nokia. Firstly it clearly showed that it has lot of problems and needs quick help. Second, Nokia is a big company with large community around it. Such emphatic single-day turns are quite childish act, that involves lot of panic and shows no respect to community. After this Nokia made some announcements about planned!! other millions of Symbian (zombie) devices and some MeeGo ghost device just trying to minimize developer dissatisfaction. Of course, first WP7 devices will come only after year or more, so the gap must be filled with something. But it was clearly stated that in long term these platforms will phased out and WP7 development will be done only using MS tools. Nokia, do you treat us developers as fools expecting that we will invest and develop for dying platforms?????
    Maybe that was the only way to go ... as everybody say, time will show. If this rescue plan will succeed, Nokia will have to spend long time recovering trust ... if Nokia will not be part of MS till that time :)

    What is my final decision. I don't blame Qt for anything. Trolls are just hostages of situation. I like Qt and only because of this I write all this stuff spending lot of my free time. I believe Qt will live further ... at least in desktop. And I'll continue to use it in my daily work for creating desktop apps. But I have the last Nokia phone ... shame.

    P.S. Some interesting facts that I found in media. Conclusions up to you:

    1. After cooperation announcement Nokia share price felt by 12%;
    2. Elop is former employee of Microsoft. And thats not ALL. Elop is the 7th biggest Microsoft shareholder.
    3. Nokia was spending about 5,9 billions EUR for research, about 4 times more than Apple.


  • Picture what i found in internet:

    !http://mynokiablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/elop-600x480.jpg(Elop Trojan Horse)!



  • Jut have read another article ... now Elop talks at Barselona, Mobile World Congress ...
    "Full article":http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13970_7-20031686-78.html

    Some things I liked best:

    bq. But some investors in the company believe that Nokia got the short end of this deal. While the benefits to Microsoft are apparent as it competes against Google and Apple in the mobile market, it's unclear to investors how the deal benefits Nokia. Shares in Nokia fell 14 percent in Helsinki after the deal was announced Friday.

    bq. We are paying them for the software," he said. "But we won't have to develop the software. And there will be some very apparent operating savings from doing this

    So it seems in long term Nokia will become pure hardware producer ...

    bq. Elop also noted that the Qt development environment that is used for Symbian handsets to make development easier would not be usable on Windows Phone 7 applications. He said this strategy was adopted to ensure that divergent platforms don't confuse developers or consumers

    So ... that was a question and here is an answer ... no Qt on mobile ... bye bye. From now the only thing Elop cares is WP7 and Microsoft. Present Nokia community and ideals does not exist for him. Very disgraceful.



  • Nokia for the past one year have been promoting Qt saying "Qt Everywhere" and now I wonder when it came to apply the same why they say Windows Phone 7 wont have Qt.

    Is it so difficult for Qt to be supported on Windows Phone 7?



  • Thats the catch ... As I mentioned they say one thing and do another ... Nokia was promoting Qt to be the only way to go for developers and now this road leads nowhere. Playing such games in such large scale is very disgraceful.

    It's not a question if it's technically difficult or not. It's a question of strategy. Microsoft wants to support only its tools and promote its brand ... whats the meaning to create other tools when ones already exist. Its neither economically nor strategically beneficial to Microsoft. And as Microsoft plays the role of father in this new family called ecosystem, thats the way Nokia will be forced to go.
    What makes me VERY angry is that it's very apparent that Qt will not find it's place in this family but Nokia is still is swearing that Qt will play some major role and in such way misleads lot of people. Nokia needs present developers only for fluent transition to WP7 and then they will say ... sorry, you have to move to MS tools ... wakeup guys ... don't allow to be fooled.



  • I was just reading the first comment at "this":http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/02/13/photos-from-nokia-press-conference/ link.

    bq. Nokia promised maemo == Dropped
    Nokia promised ovi music=== dropped
    Nokia promised symbian ^4 === dropped
    Nokia promised Qt ==== dropped
    Nokia promised Meego === Dropped
    Nokia promising windows === let's confirm the date of dropping it too..!!!
    that would be more generous
    --Shymonsam



  • Sometimes I just wander how far a CEO can go with transforming the company he manages. Can Elop go away with effectively destroying Nokia as an independent entity? Has anyone calculated the losses for investors such a brutal "shift in directions" would mean before the announcement? I doubt it - no, it's even worse, I fear they are so limited in foresight that they actually expected a rise in stock price.

    Plus, being a European I'm sorry to see that the EU has lost about the last tech company that matters in mobile technologies. Now all is left for us is to form an EU committee to pretend that we are doing something about it. Ah, maybe we will declare a new "agenda for the digital age" or some other bullshit, by about the end of 2013 :-(



  • I haven't written for my opinions since Friday.

    I am sad only for one thing: Symbian.

    That's because people have invested so much time on making it and I understand the feeling when you work on a product for several years and someone just come and say: forget it...

    I know that Qt will continue and will be stronger, but what I really worry as a mobile application developer is Symbian, because I loved it and enjoying software that I am writing for it, and it will fade away gradually.

    I will be Qt developer and I will never give up so are the Trolls, but as far as I am witnessing there will be no Qt for mobile platforms after Symbian (unless MeeGo will still support it - which I would be more than happy).

    The best thing I did professionally the last two years is by investing my time on two mobile platforms, Android and Symbian with Qt (and of course, who can get rid of Symbian C++). And I think it is a good idea for all of us - the developers to do the same because in the end it's all business and we do this for living :)



  • Difficult times ahead, but... potentially very fruitful times as well. Nokia may well be going with WP7 or whatnot, but Qt is more than that. And, well, history has shown that all the various smartphone platforms start out limiting the developers, and eventually have to open up. So, who knows what might happen in the future with this, eh? Keep on it, people (both the Trolls and everybody else), and the future will still be green for us (you see what i did there? ;) ).

    [quote author="Alexandra" date="1297437240"]You may have bet your business on Qt. But so have we.[/quote]

    As understatements go, that one's pretty hard core ;)



  • Question that is just coming up in my mind:
    Does this change in direction mean that bugreports & wishes in Jira that have been closed because focus has shifted to the mobile development will be re-evaluated? It seems mobile is not that important anymore after all...


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