Project Elf:)



  • I think, currently system of tags adding or deleting is not good. Just for fun - It's very easy to write script, which will store in memory current tags on page, then delete tags from page and after that insert tags on page (for example under my account:) If I do it for all pages, I'll get very big rating and pull down rating of our top members:) For example, script can do only N pages per day (it will be invisible for you). It's simple way to get C7 :)))



  • This way you would get 0 points in our system. You might think you get points for doing that (the front end will show +2 points), but our nightly script will reassign the points to the original tagger.

    Sorry :)



  • :)



  • Is there any policy for tagging? Every post seems to use different tags, and has tags that doesn’t really seem what first comes to mind when thinking the post... It’s like tagging stuff with “qt” here, or “qml” in qml thread and so on.



  • There is an effort going on here: http://developer.qt.nokia.com/wiki/Tagging



  • I suppose I can add a section for tag suggestions (for example for Jambi... though for that one I’m not really sure which name should be used, I suppose I’ll stickwith “qt jambi”) for a reference about tags that could be misleading? Different people will have different opinions about naming.



  • Haha, I had thought about this before. Thought it was good no one had abused system.
    Though it could explain why I get heaps of points at night when I'm offline?

    I like the idea of consistent tags but don't rely on the user to do this.
    Instead, suggest the standard tag when people use synonyms.



  • xsacha, if you are talking about last two days then this points are bonus december points.



  • Oh, I just figured this wasn't working yet. So score doubles overnight :) That explains how the scores are shooting up so fast.

    Just to clarify on the consistent tags:
    If someone tries to tag a word, it looks up all terms that mean the same thing for that word in the system . Then it chooses the standard tag word and adds this to the list.
    Later when someone searches a tag word, it uses the same method to find the tag (convert to standard name and find).

    In fact, you could go over the tag database with a script (once the synonym library is done) to ensure old tags are standardised too.

    Example:
    I add tag 'visual studio' and system adds 'msvc'
    Later someone searches for 'microsoft vc++' and it recognises it as 'msvc' and finds all related to this.



  • xsacha, good suggestion (and extremely useful, yes) and AFAIR it was discussed something like 2 or 3 months ago, but don't remember results of discussion.
    Marius, what do you think?



  • [quote author="mariusg" date="1291382754"]This way you would get 0 points in our system. You might think you get points for doing that (the front end will show +2 points), but our nightly script will reassign the points to the original tagger.

    Sorry :)[/quote]

    Ok lets take this hypothetically forward .. suppose someone write code to run all the pages, collect all the tags -- then say manually finds their substitute or replaces them in his/her DB (e.g. MSVC becomes ms vis studio) ... and then in batches replaces them on the devnet pages... does the devnet nightly script still figure this out ...

    disclaimer: this is only hypothetical and I am not responsibile if someone actually decides to try something :P heh heh



  • [quote author="tamhanna" date="1291433029"]This sounds like a workable idea to me.

    I will prolly add a few tags by hand tonight, but I see little value in tags as I never use them myself.[/quote]

    I've found tags quite useful while searching for old threads in the forum ...

    also, suggest if you can quote the author before saying "this sounds like a workable idea" ... i'm still wondering if you replied that to my hypothetical idea of hacking or to some earlier reply in this thread ;-)



  • [quote author="tamhanna" date="1291434507"]I meant the script idea, which indeed is funny to say the least!
    Tam[/quote]
    I would recommend not to ... if you theoretically think its possible, then lets leave it at that :)



  • [quote author="mariusg" date="1291382754"]This way you would get 0 points in our system. You might think you get points for doing that (the front end will show +2 points), but our nightly script will reassign the points to the original tagger.[/quote]
    How long is the original tagger kept for? If I remove all 'qml' tags before tonight and then add them after your script runs. What happens? It still keeps record of original tagger for next nights script?



  • in the early days of "non double" points, only a Hobby Entomologist or above had the right to remove tags, so do you expect some responsible actions by the serious user who had to get over 500+ points to reach to that level ..

    and even if someone does try this, I think the admins can find out if abnormal number of tags are being deleted and added back, it can always be found out and be rolled back and the user be banned for good. definitely user shouldn't qualify for elf project ;)



  • [quote author="tamhanna" date="1291444343"]Hi,
    100 posts.
    on Forum Nokia in 5 days.[/quote]
    You've outdone yourself today.
    Twelve days of FM in one. And FM is much larger than this small forum so it would be much easier to post on.



  • When I first saw you create that Magazine thread, I knew it was just to gain points :(. People would reply, you'd reply back.. points! :) Don't think anything will come of it, unfortunately.



  • Tam, please do calm down your tongue! We do not want that offending nor vulgar words here.

    Thank you.



  • Didn't mean to offend. I know you're after points. I just meant I hoped your magazine would be real but knew better - there's not enough subscribers to make it worthwhile. From the thread it seems like it won't happen. You mentioned you'd need to cut back editions because people are unwilling to pay a lot - this means not worth doing. And yes, I saw your website yesterday - you keep posting it, how could I miss it? :)



  • [quote author="xsacha" date="1291435534"]How long is the original tagger kept for? If I remove all 'qml' tags before tonight and then add them after your script runs. What happens? It still keeps record of original tagger for next nights script?[/quote]

    The original tagger of a tag on a content item is saved securely in the database for as long as that person is a member.



  • GREAT! Now the tagging system is also suffering with spammers. What would explain a topic about 'Qt Certificate destroyed by a mail carrier' tagged with 'qt creator', 'symbian' and 'qml'???... Yes, I've just removed those 3 tags.



  • I know, some people have been trying to stack up tags in obsure topics. I found a topic with more than 20 (TWENTY) tags in it. Most unrelated. I removed them of course.

    Also, I had a look at tamhanna's profile to see how he was gaining points yesterday and noticed he had tags for 'fail' and 'junk'. I removed all occurances of these too (they were in forum threads relating to QtMobility).

    Is there any system stopping them from adding the tags back after I delete them? I guess not.



  • tamhannam it is your IMHO maybe, but it is close to be against rules (I mean "be polite").



  • tamhanna, really sorry about your post. tagging mobility with Junk is not acceptable under any standards or circumstances. I find it very offensive in this forum!



  • tamhanna, what is TamsS60 and why it should be used as proof? Your imho is your imho and you can write it in your comments (without rules breaking of course), but tags are used by all people and they can have another opinion. I think this discussion about mobility and tags should be over.



  • [quote author="tamhanna" date="1291570423"]
    if you need it in a print magazine, let me know. Then Nokia can sue, and i can prove my point in court.

    But I admit that I have not done much with it the last weeks. I will look at it again, and will report more. Until then, I will not further comment and apologize :)
    [/quote]

    If we wanted to talk about your print magazine we would do it in the respective thread. No need to put that discussion here too.



  • To bring this tread back on topic. If you script your browser with Selenium to do the same as a human (change a few tags every day) we obviously can't detect it. But on the other hand, to get a sizable amount of points with tagging, and all that tagging was poor, it will be noticed.

    For the points calculations the user activity that grants points are obviously stored. They are in fact recalculated every night based on this source data. On the other hand, we don't employ PayPal levels of "fraud" detection. :)



  • thanks Marius for the insight, this post is now closed for further discussion as too much of off topic replies were made earlier ...


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