Does Qt need a modern C++ GUI API?



  • I'm very disappointed that the new features in Qt5 are not accessible with C++.
    And yes, I know that you don't care about my opinion, I just wanted to express it.

    Anyway, thanks for creating Qt4, I like it very much and I hope it will still be maintained for a long time so that I can avoid to use Qt5... at least till all the new bugs introduced in Qt5 are solved.



  • Paradox in this situation that the new features is written on C++... damn, how this can happen?
    [quote author="Trino" date="1360964774"]I'm very disappointed that the new features in Qt5 are not accessible with C++.
    And yes, I know that you don't care about my opinion, I just wanted to express it.

    Anyway, thanks for creating Qt4, I like it very much and I hope it will still be maintained for a long time so that I can avoid to use Qt5... at least till all the new bugs introduced in Qt5 are solved.
    [/quote]



  • The decision certainly has been influenced by marketing trends.We are going to see a lot of programming oriented to smart phones and all those tiny devices in the future.Digia has certainly seen that and is trying to be at the right place at the right time.



  • Yes trends... but answer me on one question: why new features writed on C++ not available from C++? They have some things that make him technically not compatible with C++ programs? Or what?

    Looks like I asked several questions)))

    I wanna say: guys u can kill two rabbits, have good C++ framework, with feature like QML.



  • Qt has really satisfied many of my programming needs,but the decision has kind of pissed me off too.I do not know much about the whys of the decision,but one thing is sure:companies go after profit and they probably have found more in promoting QML,guess we should keep our eyes open for alternatives and never put all the eggs in one basket.Any way c++ is still there and we just need to keep looking for good frameworks and libraries that fit the job.



  • There aren't many alternatives to Qt, and I won't be far from the truth if I chance the "many" to "any"... There is the morally outdated GTK built on top of the horrendous GObject, there is the morally outdated wXwidgets and probably the most viable "alternative" - JUCE, which is actually decent but APIs are a little illogical and do not cover as much ground as Qt (even though it covers some ground that Qt doesn't), not to mention the rather "humble" documentation and hardly any educational materials available.

    There really aren't that many cross-platform C++ baskets to put your eggs into. You'd have to actually learn a few platform limited ones, with different APIs and potentially a different language, which is hardly convenient.

    Qt is far from perfect and in many aspects deeply flawed, but the sad reality of the situation is there is no comparable tool that is better or comes sufficiently close, which makes the leaning towards QML that much worse. That is why many developers find themselves extorted into adopting QML, because that is what Qt is focusing development efforts on and the alternative to Qt and QML is even worse than QML, which conveniently sits in the role of the "lesser, more digestible and appealing evil".



  • [quote author="utcenter" date="1357401855"]
    On the other hand, it is simply NOT POSSIBLE to write a Qt5 application WITHOUT QML. You can only use C++ to write a Qt4 application in Qt5, but almost all of the Qt5 specific innovations are exclusively accessible through QML, therefore, in Qt5 C++ is no longer the primary language for Qt development, but a language to extend the framework. C++ is optional, QML isn't - which one is the primary? [/quote]

    Can you give an example for that? Which functions are exclusively accessible through QML?
    QML is mighty, but not so mighty like the C++ Framework, I think. Somewhere was written, that C++ are the primary language for Qt, but I read it, when Nokia owns Qt. I don't know the plan of Digia, but if the C++ framework will be droped down, I will have to switch to HTML5...

    I also used another libraries like OpenCV and I cannot easily acess them through QML.

    [quote author="utcenter" date="1361286905"]There aren't many alternatives to Qt...[/quote]

    But for QML, the (better) alternative is HTML5.



  • [quote author="Serenity" date="1361352789"]
    Can you give an example for that?
    [/quote]
    Qt5 have new features like making 3D sound and this feature available only from QML. Can u show me please how use this feature from C++? I wanna use QtAudioEngine but I cant.

    Without using hacks... after that I can say QML is primary language.

    And like I say, what the dumb write features on C++ and make them available only from QML... maybe someone has "Woe from Wit"?



  • 3D sound? interesting, got a link?



  • [quote author="Thomas Zander" date="1361353747"]3D sound? interesting, got a link?[/quote]
    Use search... http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtmultimedia/audioengineoverview.html
    Excellent features that I cannot integrate in my game app on C++ ...



  • @hronom; you do realize you can combine QML and C++, right? Doing audio in QML while doing graphics and logic in C++ should be perfectly possible.
    Saying you can't use it in your game is wrong, you can use it, the question is if you want to spent time learning QML ;)



  • Yes I can go from one office in New York to another office in New York by flying through Ukraine.
    @Thomas Zander; do you realize that something wrong in this situation? Or its normal?



  • [quote author="Hronom" date="1361353124"]
    Qt5 have new features like making 3D sound and this feature available only from QML. Can u show me please how use this feature from C++? I wanna use QtAudioEngine but I cant.
    [/quote]

    :( :( :(

    But there are still so a lot of much other things, which are not working in QML.

    btw: Is that, what you are looking for: http://qt-project.org/wiki/QtAudio3D ?



  • In math you often have to change to a different domain to find a better solution.
    For example to convert a waveform to a fourier domain in order to fetch the frequencies.

    QML is a better domain, as it were, for many tasks that are of a more declaritive nature. Of which audio-playback is an excellent example.

    Its good to learn more languages, it gives you freedom to pick the right one for the job.



  • [quote author="Serenity" date="1361356800"]
    :( :( :(

    But there are still so a lot of much other things, which are not working in QML.

    btw: Is that, what you are looking for: http://qt-project.org/wiki/QtAudio3D ?[/quote]
    Oh thanks, I'll try that. But its looks like spike, than I have already in Qt5 this features writed on C++.

    @Thomas Zander; Oh I understand you... I just wanna say one thing, why need divide Qt on two parts?

    We have Qt C++ code part that available for C++ apps, and Qt C++ code part that available for QML.
    This is normal situation?
    Or maybe we can create framework that have Qt C++ part that available for C++ and QML apps. Looks like it be epic win, do you think so?

    Guys look here: I dont hate QML, I just say one simple thing, and i wanna that guys that creates this beautiful framework heared this thing.

    I don't have big skill in C++, but, for the first view of sources of backend QML, i think: why this guys do this divide? Oh I understand may be something technically not compatible with C++ apps, but if not, why you do this?



  • Having Qt do QML as well as C++ are two domains, they have different strenghts and weaknesses. The main reason for QML is because it is really really good at some things. Things that C++ is not really useful for. You'd have to write many classes and many many lines of code to do stuff that in QML takes no time at all.

    Stating you really want to write those hundreds of lines of C++ and you dislike you have to write QML instead, sounds a little like you are asking to use the hammer you know so well instead of learning a new tool that is much better suited to the task.

    Damn right Qt is divided into those two domains, and its a great thing too since they are for different things and you likely will keep using both of them in apps.

    So, in short, because its too painful to use C++ for some things, we invented QML to do it easier. Thats why we did this.



  • @Thomas Zander; So you offers me to that thing: from my code on C++ use QML to speak with C++ QML backend, right?

    Next that you can say: "You write game app, right? So why you dont write this app on C++ use QML its easy..." So you already exposed obstacle Qt integration into an existing C++ project.

    You say somthing like this "in C++ I wright many lines of code to do stuff that in QML takes no time at all". So you wanna say me go rewrite my game code on QML or shut up?

    Next thing you can say “sorry Qt not for you, go choose another tool”? Uh guys and all this for bright future of QML?

    Ok, you divide on two parts, but I'm say that you do double work to conatin two way of Qt, instead of conatin one way.

    And ONE WAY its -> Qt C++ framework with feature like QML, where all features available on C++ and QML. User can decide what to use, an its be good freedom for users.

    I repeat one thing: you ALREADY created new features on C++, so make them available from C++.
    User must decide use C++ or QML.



  • @
    You say somthing like this “in C++ I wright many lines of code to do stuff that in QML takes no time at all”. So you wanna say me go rewrite my game code on QML or shut up?

    Next thing you can say “sorry Qt not for you, go choose another tool”? Uh guys and all this for bright future of QML?
    @

    You are putting words I did not say in my mouth, please don't do that.



  • [quote author="Thomas Zander" date="1361355691"]@hronom; you do realize you can combine QML and C++, right? Doing audio in QML while doing graphics and logic in C++ should be perfectly possible.
    Saying you can't use it in your game is wrong, you can use it, the question is if you want to spent time learning QML ;)[/quote]
    From my game app on C++ I need to speak with QML part of my game, that QML part of my game speaks with C++ Qt backend, is this right? Or I'm now putting words in your mouth?

    One more repeat one thing: you ALREADY created new features on C++, so make them available from C++.



  • @Hronom: Did you try it with QtAudio3d? I don't want to use it, I am only interested, if it works

    @Thomas Zander: QML doesn't have really much opertunities as in Qt4. And if it's not easy to do it in QML, it will never work in QML, which means, that QML is a language with limits, but you can implement very fast simple widgets. That's the reason, why I prefer C++. I will learn QML, when I got time for that, but now, I only developping complex desktop applications for Linux, Windows and Mac and need their styles.


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