[Suggestion] Wiki Comment



  • I read a post that wiki haven't a talk.
    Someone suggestion open a new tread for every wiki discussion, but for me this create a lot of unuseful post.
    The new post on wiki for idea or suggestion is ok here, but if i want talk about some editing of a user for a specific wiki, the creation of one post for every wiki sound strange for me.
    For example if i want tell to a user more attention for his editing of the wiki; because he have remove, submit, and re-add the previous context when he have to use preview before submit (and all editing is logging so this create unuseful 'row' history).
    I have to add new post and write this, but maybe some user don't have much interesting in what i have write.

    Ok, now there isn't a talk wiki, but in the future is this in your plan?
    Thank's for the patience.



  • stuk, this has already been logged earlier "here":http://developer.qt.nokia.com/forums/viewthread/57



  • Yes, last date is 12th May. But there isn't an answer if this is plan or not. Alexandra says it depend of the evolver of the wiki. Now 7 month are passed.

    [quote author="chetankjain" date="1292403689"]stuk, this has already been logged earlier "here":http://developer.qt.nokia.com/forums/viewthread/57[/quote]



  • Lot more features are yet to come. Lets wait and check when all these changes happen. May be after today's downtime we can expect some bug fixes or feature implementations.



  • We don't have this on the to-do list since it's too much of a core feature of the wiki software for us to work on. We will instead add a feature request with ExpressionEngine and when/if they add it to their product we shall be sure to upgrade.



  • Hope that Expression Engine adds this feature soon.



  • Why you use ExpressionEngine for wiki and not mediawiki?

    [quote author="mariusg" date="1292845577"]We don't have this on the to-do list since it's too much of a core feature of the wiki software for us to work on. We will instead add a feature request with ExpressionEngine and when/if they add it to their product we shall be sure to upgrade.[/quote]



  • [quote author="stuk" date="1292848241"]Why you use ExpressionEngine for wiki and not mediawiki?
    [/quote]

    Because that is a time consuming integration, maybe as much as the DevNet it self. So it was a resource/risk issue back then, but I'm not ruling out using MediaWiki in the future. With the growth and focus we are getting the resource issues might look very different in the coming year.

    If we, by this time next year, are configuring MediaWiki bots - it's all good :)

    A bit of background: When making the devnet we had, in simplified terms, the option of going with the "best of breed" modules (MediaWiki + WordPress + phpBB - or similar) or an integrated solution (Drupal, Joomla!, EE etc.). The "best of breed" option is in the end "the best" if you manage to control the bloat but the way there is long. You would also need a proper SSO stack and adapt the various components to it and add a user management layer on top of that. And create 3+ versions of the site theme and maintain that, with performance nuances for each. The admin back-end situation is also a lot of challenges. Just ask the old developer.symbian.org guys about how much work that was.



  • I fully agree with this suggestion, When articles are written there should be comment page for the discussion about the article.



  • I also agree with comment page suggestion. For now I've got slightly different idea. What about flagging content out of date? If I find a page with outdated content (links for example) and I don't know how to change it I can just flag it out of date and someone with adequate knowledge can update it.



  • Please, do not anybody say that we can solve it with tags. I already see the waves of "out-dated" tags as it happened with the "please rename" tags.



  • I agree with your post, but here some user ask discussion page, link red for new page, new toolbar language for page.
    I think this is all feature that all wiki have (like mediawiki), is more to difficult 'install' mediawiki or create this feature from scratch?

    [quote author="mariusg" date="1292852467"][quote author="stuk" date="1292848241"]Why you use ExpressionEngine for wiki and not mediawiki?
    [/quote]

    Because that is a time consuming integration, maybe as much as the DevNet it self. So it was a resource/risk issue back then, but I'm not ruling out using MediaWiki in the future. With the growth and focus we are getting the resource issues might look very different in the coming year.

    If we, by this time next year, are configuring MediaWiki bots - it's all good :)

    A bit of background: When making the devnet we had, in simplified terms, the option of going with the "best of breed" modules (MediaWiki + WordPress + phpBB - or similar) or an integrated solution (Drupal, Joomla!, EE etc.). The "best of breed" option is in the end "the best" if you manage to control the bloat but the way there is long. You would also need a proper SSO stack and adapt the various components to it and add a user management layer on top of that. And create 3+ versions of the site theme and maintain that, with performance nuances for each. The admin back-end situation is also a lot of challenges. Just ask the old developer.symbian.org guys about how much work that was. [/quote]



  • It starts to become funny reading threads like this. Because there are two ends, users and developers (from the Qt DevNet site's view), and there is an agreement after a few posts.

    Speaking of the subject, it's clear, that we won't get an ideal system in the near future, and that's totally okay, because this site is do its job: make our community up, and help it.

    Yes, it would be great to have wiki discussion in the wiki page. And yes, this is too big to implement for now. Is it wrong? No! Why? Because if you have some problem with the wiki page, you should corrent it, or contact one of the authors or start a forum discussion.

    Too many forum discussions on wiki pages? I don't think so, because there won't be a thread for every single wiki page, some are just good. We have a forum category called Wiki Discussion, which is for stuff like this I think. Am I correct?

    And if it bothers you too much, then simply add a "wiki page discussion" tag for it, or a prefix in the name of the thread, to later move it, if the new shiny features are done. (Sorry VCsala for the suggestion :P)

    Oh, and a little off topic: we make a new thread to every single wiki page we translate to Hungarian, because we have to discuss it, which way is the best for some content.
    And "I have started a thread about prefixes in these threads":http://developer.qt.nokia.com/forums/viewthread/2866.

    So I think we can manage wiki page discussions for now with the tech we have, and make some suggestions and take or trust into these amazing Qt DevNet Boys and Girls and wait for what the future brings to us. :)



  • So...ok, but this is logic. Now we have a wiki like a 'mediawiki'? No, so we made do with what we have now. A thread for every wiki? For me yes in the future (mediawiki), now we don't open a tread for a new post because is very twisted way. How can i search if there is a thread with a wiki page? Look history? Look Special tag? Search in the wiki forum? You said 'Too many forum discussions on wiki pages? I don’t think so, because there won’t be a thread for every single wiki page, some are just good.' and after 'we make a new thread to every single wiki page we translate to Hungarian, because we have to discuss it, which way is the best for some content.' Because you have right is useful open a new tread for a wiki page. And in the future is useful have a discussion page, in a history wiki user said what have do, in a discussion page said why have do it, why have change some word, and other user can reply to this, without open a new thread or using 'history page' for workaround.
    But now this features there isnt'...so simply use the wiki forum :)

    [quote author="CreMindES" date="1293574053"]It starts to become funny reading threads like this. Because there are two ends, users and developers (from the Qt DevNet site's view), and there is an agreement after a few posts.

    Speaking of the subject, it's clear, that we won't get an ideal system in the near future, and that's totally okay, because this site is do its job: make our community up, and help it.

    Yes, it would be great to have wiki discussion in the wiki page. And yes, this is too big to implement for now. Is it wrong? No! Why? Because if you have some problem with the wiki page, you should corrent it, or contact one of the authors or start a forum discussion.

    Too many forum discussions on wiki pages? I don't think so, because there won't be a thread for every single wiki page, some are just good. We have a forum category called Wiki Discussion, which is for stuff like this I think. Am I correct?

    And if it bothers you too much, then simply add a "wiki page discussion" tag for it, or a prefix in the name of the thread, to later move it, if the new shiny features are done. (Sorry VCsala for the suggestion :P)

    Oh, and a little off topic: we make a new thread to every single wiki page we translate to Hungarian, because we have to discuss it, which way is the best for some content.
    And "I have started a thread about prefixes in these threads":http://developer.qt.nokia.com/forums/viewthread/2866.

    So I think we can manage wiki page discussions for now with the tech we have, and make some suggestions and take or trust into these amazing Qt DevNet Boys and Girls and wait for what the future brings to us. :)[/quote]



  • I had to read through twice you post stuk, but I hope I understand it correctly.

    The only reason I open a new thread to every Hungarian wiki translation, because Hungarian is not the easiest language in the word, and sometimes (often) is quite hard to find the perfect word or the perfect sentences structure. But it's different with English wikis, because some of them just good as it is as I've said, so you don't need to discuss anything. So if you have read it more carefully, you'd know that I didn't contradic myself...

    But if you don't like the idea of special tag or advenced searching or anything, what would you do if you want to discuss something about a wiki? Write to the authors and maybe start a x e-mail to y, y e-mail to z, z e-mail back to .. and so on...?

    At the end, you should open a wiki thread for now, and as you and I just said, in the future we will have a good system for this, and clean these up, but for now it will make it... :)



  • Now I wonder if it would help if we were able to somehow "connect" a specific forum thread in the Wiki forum with it's respectable wiki page. EE has something similar for blog postings, there it doesn't make much sense for us though.

    Just linking on the page is the obvious solution, but do we all think of that all the time? I doubt it...



  • Hmm, I'm starting to get confused a little bit. You are right Alexandra.

    If you don't mind, I will try to sum what we know:

    • in regional forums, it's important to have a discussion on the translated pages
    • in some other cases regular wiki article might needs a discussion about its content
    • we can't do it on the wiki page, becasuse there is no such feature yet, but we will hope there will be some day, till than, we need a solution.

    Am I right?

    Linking is quite a good ideai I think Alexandra :)



  • [quote author="CreMindES" date="1293625710"]

    • in regional forums, it's important to have a discussion on the translated pages [/quote]

    That, and discussions related to regional events or meetings. Basically anything that won't be of any interest to anyone not knowing the respective language.

    [quote]

    • in some other cases regular wiki article might needs a discussion about its content[/quote]

    If you're discussing an article written in English, you should do so in the general Wiki Forum. Otherwise the regional forum should be okay.

    [quote]

    • we can't do it on the wiki page, becasuse there is no such feature yet, but we will hope there will be some day, till than, we need a solution.[/quote]

    Precisely. We are working on a roadmap for the coming months now and the wiki is pretty high on the list when it comes to further development. We will update you as soon as we feel we have an overview.

    [quote]Linking is quite a good ideai I think Alexandra :)[/quote]

    Well, there's not much more we can right now. It should make sure wiki articles and forum threads are somewhat connected.



  • Thanks Alexandra for your detailed answer, I totally agree with you in everything and thanks for the clearing up that I haven't written fully clearly.

    And welcome back after the holidays :)


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