Russian translations of Getting Started Programming with Qt
"GettingStartedQtRussian":http://developer.qt.nokia.com/wiki/GettingStartedQtRussian is much more closer to the original article ""Getting Started Programming with Qt":http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7/gettingstartedqt.html" than another one.
Hehe, but another one is much more readable for newbie.
[quote author="Denis Kormalev" date="1288557662"]Hehe, but another one is much more readable for newbie.[/quote] I disagree with that. Correct translation with some minor editing always better than fuzzy one.
kagami, let's not move our discussion to public. We have different point of views on problem, that's why I've started this thread. Let's just wait for other members opinion.
Ok, let's wait
I think that it would be nice if peoples commented their votes.
I think, they both is applicable, and they both have good and bad sentences.
In my opinion "GettingStartedWithQtRussian":http://developer.qt.nokia.com/wiki/GettingStartedWithQtRussian is better for some reasons:
- Better formatted text makes this article more readable.
- Original name of term near it translated analog. That helps to better orient users who have experience with other languages using the same technology. For example i know the term eventloop , and I find easier to understand this "цикл событий (eventloop)", than this "цикл событий (петлю событий)".
Both articles are good, but I liked the GettingStartedWithQtRussian more.
I don't think that GettingStartedQtRussian is perfect, but it much much better then GettingStartedWithQtRussian. Here is my thoughts:
- In GettingStartedWithQtRussian some terms are not translated correctly. For example, "скроллбары", "лейблы", "переключатели", "радиокнопки", "чекбоксы", "тулкит", "ран-тайм", "прикрепляемые виджеты" and so on... Term "GUI" wasn't translated at all.
- In GettingStartedWithQtRussian names of the articles in the "Дополнительная информация" sections not translated.
- There are some mistypes in GettingStartedWithQtRussian, for example, "приожения" in "Использование QMainWindow" section.
- In GettingStartedQtRussian translation is more correct. Compare this:
1 Original text: In this getting started guide, we teach basic Qt knowledge by implementing a simple Notepad application
2 GettingStartedWithQtRussian: В данной статье мы разберем основы Qt на примере простого приложения “Блокнот”.
3 GettingStartedQtRussian: В данном руководстве мы изучим основы Qt, написав простое приложение Notepad.
Guide is "руководство", not "статья"; teach == "изучим", not "разберем"; by implementing == "написав" or "реализовав" but not "на примере" Maybe Denis doesn't know english very well?
- Also I don't think that translating name of the Notepad application is a good idea.
P.S. BTW, text formation is the same in the both articles. And I don't think that original term near it translation is good because for it is harder to read such text. Maybe it is better when original terms and its translation are in the separate page called, for example, "glossary"?
Alexander A. last edited by
Полностью согласен с тем что сказал cool-dude. Даже если сравнить названия статей, то можно отметить что "getting started" переводится как "начало работы", но никак не "основы". На мой взгляд GettingStartedWithQtRussian больше похож на изложение, чем на перевод.
cool-dude, did you heard about synonyms and adaptive translations? Source article (or call it guide, whatever) is not adapted, it is pure English, so it should be adapted for better understanding by non-English speakers.
About english terms in translation. They are neccessary. Dr.Krauze said why previously.
Also about some terms you've mentioned. Such terms as “прикрепляемые виджеты” and “переключатели” were borrowed from another translation (if you will look you will find them there) as things I've decided were better translated than in my translation.
I don't sure at all that we should translate names of articles in additional info. They are not-translated and it can be confusing for reader to click on russian link and go to english page. But, of course we are community and if you think they should be translated you can translate them (or simply borrow them from another translation to reduce time).
Why do you think that translation of example app is not a good idea? As for me it is ok. Of course it will be better to translate screenshots also, but I don't have hosting that will provide forever live for them (mine is limited by bandwidth).
Alexander A., please try to minimize russian language here (ideally only for translation parts discussion). This thread can be read by non-russian speakers also and I don't think it will be ok for them. Just imagine that someone will write for example at german or spanish or italian in public, non language dedicated place. It will definitely be not ok for you.
The "Qt Russian Translation Team":http://www.forum.crossplatform.ru/index.php?showtopic=465 will begin translation of Qt 4.7.x docs in few days. Some of mentioned articles are already translated for 4.6.x and below, see "here":http://doc.crossplatform.ru/. So translation of the article's names is not so bad idea. Also we have glossary file were name terms has adequate translation, not source-language calques and loanwords (currently it is not available for public for technical reasons, but you can find our discussions "here":http://www.forum.crossplatform.ru/index.php?showtopic=475 and "here":http://www.prog.org.ru/topic_9757_0.html). We try to make our translation as much easy as we can without loosing its sense. English terms in russian article is nonsence because they make artickle harder to read.
Adaptation is good thing, but you mustn't use it very freely. Adequate translation of terms instead of language calques and loanwords can do much more for adaptation then using synonyms of the common words.
P.S. It would be helpful if there were a official "translation guide" from trolls, because ours opinions are very different and it seems that we can't come to agreement. Also looks like that we can't merge our translations without authoritative judges.
kagami, just a note about translations and non-using calques. Have you read russian translation of GoF? Where all patterns are translated and it makes further real-life usage of them really hard. To discuss it with others you have to find original name (which is calque but it is standard) just because others use english names, not russian.
Such situation is here too. For example "eventloop" word. It should be put into parentheses inside translation because it is simply a keyword to search in google and in assistant.
And there are no authoritative judges here. We should decide by ourselves what translation should we use as basement of future perfect article.
About translation for links in read more section. It is ok to translate them if they will link to translated articles, I'm agreed with you here.
I don't like meeting english words in russian text. I'm agree with cool-dude that they are should be in the separate glossary.
kagami, so you want user to read additional not related with context list of terms instead of just reading them in context? IMHO second will be better for remembering for further usage.
You're missing the point. When reader needs english version of term, he always can found it (very fast) in glossary. Reader mustn't teach them.
kagami, oh, I don't know anybody who will find this very first tutorial when he will try to find some more info (e.g. after two months after reading) what he should to do for example with eventloop. In this case english terms are useful because reader saw them and visual memory can help him in his problem.
I must admit that I'm was wrong. I have a look at some translated books on my table and all of them contains english terms in the braskets near the place where they were mentioned for the first time.
That's all folks! Poll is closed. We've started at merging part with kagami. Will inform you when something new will be known.