Discussion about "Threads, Events and QObjects" article

[giesbert]

bq. What do you mean? Right now there’s a simple example by an hypotetic recursion into a slot. Do you think I should stressing on it even more?

I meant that it can not only fore recursion, it can also fore a stutdown or delete of an object, that you currently work on. Think of deleteLater, which is executed by the event loop. This can happen when you call @QApplication::processEvents@. And then, perhaps, an object, where yiou think it exists, is away. And I saw suxgh tghings, especially not recursions but unexpected object deletion which result in a crash. And then all you get is:
bq. It crashes, I don't know why, but here the memory is freed.....

And you are the happy person to find the bug, they introduced by spinning the event loop out of scope...

So I would make a bigger note with many exclamation marks and warnings... :-))

[Guest]

moving this to Wiki forum, thats the right place to initiate discussions on wiki articles

[dangelog]

[quote author="Gerolf Reinwardt" date="1292356379"]bq. What do you mean? Right now there’s a simple example by an hypotetic recursion into a slot. Do you think I should stressing on it even more?

I meant that it can not only fore recursion, it can also fore a stutdown or delete of an object, that you currently work on. Think of deleteLater, which is executed by the event loop. This can happen when you call @QApplication::processEvents@. And then, perhaps, an object, where yiou think it exists, is away. And I saw suxgh tghings, especially not recursions but unexpected object deletion which result in a crash. And then all you get is:
bq. It crashes, I don't know why, but here the memory is freed.....

And you are the happy person to find the bug, they introduced by spinning the event loop out of scope...

So I would make a bigger note with many exclamation marks and warnings... :-))[/quote]

Ok, I got it now :-)

Well, I've integrated your suggestions here and there. Give it a read if you want to :)

[quote author="chetankjain" date="1292393650"]moving this to Wiki forum, thats the right place to initiate discussions on wiki articles[/quote]

Ops! You're right, sorry about that.

[giesbert]

Hi,
thanks again, the article is really good, and I think, the pitfalls are clearer now. So looking fporward to your next article :-))

[Wolf P.]

bq. how to start, stop, join a thread under (at least) one major operating system;

Is joining threads such a common pattern?
I've always imagined threads as autonomous agents. This I was able to produce programmatically and at some point they were finished and forgotten. Whether or not the program code orphaned never seemed to matter to me.

[giesbert]

Joining threads is common, if you put parts of a bigger thing to threads to do that in paralell and want to wait for all results being finished. I know, it can also be done with QtConcurrent but some programs are older than QtConcurrent :-))

[dangelog]

[quote author="Wolf P." date="1292845577"]bq. how to start, stop, join a thread under (at least) one major operating system;

Is joining threads such a common pattern?
I've always imagined threads as autonomous agents. This I was able to produce programmatically and at some point they were finished and forgotten. Whether or not the program code orphaned never seemed to matter to me.[/quote]

It's a pattern, that's all. For instance, a possible use case is telling a worker thread to finish, then actually wait for it to end (by joining it), then deallocate some resources used by it.

[Wolf P.]

Gerolf, I see. The somewhat outdated framework I worked with, provided only the forking.
Do you know a good real-world example?

Peppe, as I see, to join means simply to wait?

[giesbert]

Join means wait for finish, yes.
I have some in my work, but they are not open source :-)
removing objects, which are are internally multithreadded for example. You have to close all threads before removing the object.

[dangelog]

[quote author="Wolf P." date="1292847084"]Gerolf, I see. The somewhat outdated framework I worked with, provided only the forking.
Do you know a good real-world example?

Peppe, as I see, to join means simply to wait?[/quote]

I was pretty sure it was standard lexicon when it comes to threading: it means "block the calling thread until the target thread terminates"; and yes, it's what QThread::wait() does. See for instance:
http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/online/pages/man3/pthread_join.3.html
http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/Thread.html#join()
http://perldoc.perl.org/threads.html#DESCRIPTION

Now that you're telling me, perhaps should I change that term?

[goetz]

I must admit, I did not read the wiki article, but have some experience with QThread. The term "join a thread" was unknown to me, so although this might be a common term in threading in general, it seems it is not used in Qt world.

[giesbert]

It is common in Boost threadding for example, that's where I know it from. If it is a general term... ???

[dangelog]

I can put a footnote and/or a link there, just in case. The point is that you should know what QThread::wait() is for. What do you think?

[goetz]

Knowledge about QThread::wait() is definitely needed.

maybe this wording is a bit more clear:

"how to start, stop, wait for a thread (aka join a thread in boost and others) under (at least) one major operating system"

[Wolf P.]

[quote author="Volker" date="1292850647"] "how to start, stop, wait for a thread [/quote]
This sounds very familiar to me (FYI: Win32/VCL).

[dangelog]

Ok, I changed the sentence to
[quote]
how to start and stop a thread, and wait for it to finish, under (at least) one major operating system;
[/quote]

Thank you all for your feedback :)

[Wolf P.]

Another choice of terminology has me confused: reentrant. Thread-safe I understood, but the definition of reentrancy seemed not clearly demarcated from it. Maybe a slight reworking of the text could help for a better understanding of the difference.

[Wolf P.]

Sorry for this naive comment. Finally I found that this is Qt terminology: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/threads-reentrancy.html

[Franzk]

It is not just Qt terminology. It's general programming terminology and something everyone who does at least the slightest bit of multi-threading should know about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reentrant_(subroutine)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_safety

[Wolf P.]

[quote author="Franzk" date="1292858262"]...and something everyone who does at least the slightest bit of multi-threading should know about.[/quote] thx for the WP references :)

BTW: I did some multithreaded coding without problems, and without thinking about reentrance.