Documentation is not clear about Pre-requisites



  • I have used Qt for some time now, but not since DIgia has taken it over.
    Kudos on picking up and supporting Qt, by the way.

    I have built several portable programs that run in Windows [x86,x64) and Linux {Ubuntu,Mint etc.).
    So I am not a complete neophyte. Also I'm a retired Geek with 35 years of programming experience.

    However, the documentation at this page: Qt Installation Program
    http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.1/qtdoc/qtinstaller.html
    is not clear enough about how to select the kit that I want to download.

    MSVC 2012? Does that mean that it includes the RunTime for MSVC 2012 and that it will work by itself?
    Apparently not.
    Apparently it means that I require some MSVC kit already installed?
    Which kit[s] and where do I get them. Yes, You may actually have to provide a link to a Microsoft Website, as distasteful as that is, I know. But after all, it is you who decided not to use the GNU tools for the x64 build suite.
    How about Express? Is there a free alternative for the tools required? I don't have $1000+ per year and with the TechNet subscriptions being cancelled, It's unlikely that this alternative will be available in the future. Oh, you do know that TechNet will no longer exist, Right? Apparently folks were abusing it to get Free Windows licenses. Who knew?
    Is there a free version of the MS development environment that I can use with Qt?
    At this point, I am a hobbiest and independent developer with zero budget for development tools.
    I know that you eschew talking about other companies in your rush to be completely Open Source.

    However, those of us who aren't in the complete KNOW haven't got a clue about which kit they might want to use.

    So....
    What is the story? Maybe there is someone in the forum that can fill me in.
    Provide a link to another forum post that no doubt exists?
    Provide a link to a wiki page that may exist but whose link was left out of the Getting Started page?

    Can I use the Windows x64 MSVC 2012 kits with some "Free" alternative for the compiler etc from Microsoft?
    I saw Express mentioned, but with no details.

    Please update the program to provide a clearer error message that is more helpful when there is no compiler available. The current one is obscure and does not tell you where to go or how to set the pointer to the compiler. It just mentions something obscure and leaves you hanging.

    Will the Win 7 x86 [32bit] MinGW installer give me an environment that will build x86 apps out of the box?
    Or does that too require some other thing to be installed first?
    Please update the documentation to answer ALL THE QUESTIONS that someone will have when choosing which kit to install for the first time, OR
    continue to rely on your community to answer this question for many new, or not so new, folks that would like to use your "product".

    My alternative is to roll back to "Qt_SDK_Win_offline_v1_2_en.exe" from before you guys took over, and which worked perfectly well.

    Thanks so much,
    ww


  • Moderators

    Hi,

    To build programs, you need a compiler. After you have installed your compiler, download and install the Qt package that matches your compiler. (The only exception is the MinGW package, which already include the MinGW tool chain)

    MSVC Express uses the same compiler as the MSVC Ultimate, so you can use that. (The difference between Express and Ultimate lies in the IDE, not the compiler). Or, if you don't want to download the Visual Studio IDE, you can just get the "Windows SDK":http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/hh852363.aspx

    [quote]Will the Win 7 ×86 [32bit] MinGW installer give me an environment that will build x86 apps out of the box?[/quote]Yes :)

    [quote]But after all, it is you who decided not to use the GNU tools for the x64 build suite.[/quote]If you prefer a 64-bit MinGW tool chain, there are unofficial packages at http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingwbuilds/files/external-binary-packages/Qt-Builds/

    Please note that it's not feasible to provide packages for every possible compiler + platform combination out there. See my answer on "this page":http://qt-project.org/forums/viewthread/29905

    [quote author="windyweather" date="1378834189"]Please update the documentation to answer ALL THE QUESTIONS that someone will have when choosing which kit to install for the first time[/quote]Please post requests to the issue tracker at https://bugreports.qt-project.org/ (unfortunately the server seems to be down at the moment -- it should be back up soon though). Posts in this forum will get lost.



  • [quote author="JKSH" date="1378861082"]Hi,

    To build programs, you need a compiler. After you have installed your compiler, download and install the Qt package that matches your compiler. (The only exception is the MinGW package, which already include the MinGW tool chain)[/quote]
    Thanks. I knew that, of course. It's just that your docs don't really point to the compilers that your various kits use or supply. They just hint.
    [quote author="JKSH" date="1378861082"]
    MSVC Express uses the same compiler as the MSVC Ultimate, so you can use that. (The difference between Express and Ultimate lies in the IDE, not the compiler). Or, if you don't want to download the Visual Studio IDE, you can just get the "Windows SDK":http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/hh852363.aspx
    [/quote]
    Huh? So you are saying that paying thousands of dollars to microsoft gets me the same compiler as the free one? But again. Will MSVC Express work? And where is the doc that tells me how to hook them together if I want to go that way? BTW, I've got the MinGW 32bit [x86] version going, so I'll use that for a while and then move to the MinGW x64 version. BTW, since most modern computers now ship with 4GB or more memory and are supplied with an x64 OS out of the box, it seems like an odd choice to supply the x86 MinGW version and not even point to the x64 version.
    [quote author="JKSH" date="1378861082"]
    [quote]Will the Win 7 ×86 [32bit] MinGW installer give me an environment that will build x86 apps out of the box?[/quote]Yes :)

    [quote]But after all, it is you who decided not to use the GNU tools for the x64 build suite.[/quote]If you prefer a 64-bit MinGW tool chain, there are unofficial packages at http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingwbuilds/files/external-binary-packages/Qt-Builds/
    [/quote]
    Happy days.. I'll go get that one someday soon and rip out the x86 version and install the x64 version.
    [quote author="JKSH" date="1378861082"]
    Please note that it's not feasible to provide packages for every possible compiler + platform combination out there. See my answer on "this page":http://qt-project.org/forums/viewthread/29905
    [/quote]
    Of course not. But none of them seem documented in any detail.
    [quote author="JKSH" date="1378861082"]
    [quote author="windyweather" date="1378834189"]Please update the documentation to answer ALL THE QUESTIONS that someone will have when choosing which kit to install for the first time[/quote]Please post requests to the issue tracker at https://bugreports.qt-project.org/ (unfortunately the server seems to be down at the moment -- it should be back up soon though). Posts in this forum will get lost.[/quote]

    Lost? Really? That's odd. Or do you mean that folks won't see them, not that they will be deleted? Oh well.... Ce La Vie or some such.
    Thanks for the pointer to the x64 version.

    • ww

  • Moderators

    [quote author="windyweather" date="1378863434"]It's just that your docs don't really point to the compilers that your various kits use or supply. They just hint.[/quote]The download links for Windows packages have the exact compiler versions listed in parentheses. Also, see the "Platform Installers" section in the docs that you linked.

    Qt is a C++ library. I'm not aware of any C++ libraries out there that supply compilers -- the fact that MinGW is bundled is an exception, not the norm.

    [quote]Huh? So you are saying that paying thousands of dollars to microsoft gets me the same compiler as the free one?[/quote]The compiler is free of charge. People pay for the IDE and its features (project management, collaboration, plugin support, code modelling, code analysis, diagnostic tools, etc.)

    [quote]But again. Will MSVC Express work?[/quote]Yes. So will the (free of charge) Windows SDK.

    [quote]And where is the doc that tells me how to hook them together if I want to go that way?[/quote]After you've installed your tools, the Qt Creator IDE should detect them automatically. In case it doesn't, see:

    "Adding Compilers":http://qt-project.org/doc/qtcreator-2.8/creator-tool-chains.html and then

    "Adding Kits":http://qt-project.org/doc/qtcreator-2.8/creator-targets.html

    (In Qt Creator, the word "Kit" refers to a compiler-toolchain + Qt-library combo)

    [quote]BTW, since most modern computers now ship with 4GB or more memory and are supplied with an x64 OS out of the box, it seems like an odd choice to supply the x86 MinGW version and not even point to the x64 version.[/quote]The number of users that require 32-bit compilers is still significant, so we can't ignore them. The 32-bit package can be used by all modern machines, but the 64-bit one can't.

    Not saying that that's the reason the Qt Project decided to provide the 32-bit MinGW package, of course. If you really feel that the 64-bit one should be provided instead, submit a request with your rationale (the decision-makers don't visit this forum much)

    [quote][quote author="JKSH" date="1378861082"]
    Please note that it's not feasible to provide packages for every possible compiler + platform combination out there. See my answer on "this page":http://qt-project.org/forums/viewthread/29905
    [/quote]Of course not. But none of them seem documented in any detail.[/quote]Which details are you looking for?

    [quote]Lost? Really? That's odd. Or do you mean that folks won't see them, not that they will be deleted?[/quote]Sorry, I meant "lost" as in "buried under new posts and not likely to be seen again unless you specifically search for it".

    [quote]Thanks for the pointer to the x64 version.[/quote]You're welcome



  • [quote author="JKSH" date="1378876128"]Qt is a C++ library. I'm not aware of any C++ libraries out there that supply compilers -- the fact that MinGW is bundled is an exception, not the norm.[/quote]Since an IDE, editor, Form Builder, and often compliers are supplied, I'm sure you can see my confusion. I thought that this site is presenting a full multi-platform development environment.

    [quote]After you've installed your tools, the Qt Creator IDE should detect them automatically. In case it doesn't, see:

    "Adding Compilers":http://qt-project.org/doc/qtcreator-2.8/creator-tool-chains.html and then

    "Adding Kits":http://qt-project.org/doc/qtcreator-2.8/creator-targets.html

    (In Qt Creator, the word "Kit" refers to a compiler-toolchain + Qt-library combo)[/quote]Well, Thank you very much. Those are exactly some of the links that I'd expect to see on the Getting Started page. Wonder why they are not there? Maybe you can help by seeing that they get to the Getting Started page.

    Thanks a whole bunch. I'm up and running now. 'nuf said.

    • ww

  • Moderators

    [quote author="windyweather" date="1378916321"]Since an IDE, editor, Form Builder, and often compliers are supplied, I'm sure you can see my confusion. I thought that this site is presenting a full multi-platform development environment.[/quote]That's a fair point. I can definitely see ways to improve the presentation of the Downloads page.

    [quote][quote]After you've installed your tools, the Qt Creator IDE should detect them automatically. In case it doesn't, see:

    "Adding Compilers":http://qt-project.org/doc/qtcreator-2.8/creator-tool-chains.html and then

    "Adding Kits":http://qt-project.org/doc/qtcreator-2.8/creator-targets.html

    [/quote]Well, Thank you very much. Those are exactly some of the links that I'd expect to see on the Getting Started page. Wonder why they are not there? Maybe you can help by seeing that they get to the Getting Started page.[/quote]I tried to do that several months ago (https://codereview.qt-project.org/#change,53967 ), but it got declined with the following rationale:

    We're still hoping that most people will install Qt 5, so the kits will be configured automatically. As this is a one-time task that not all users will need to perform, it is kind of out of place in the Getting Started section. However, we do get a lot of questions about it, so I will write a new topic about "Configuring Qt Creator" that will provide pointers to double-checking kits, compilers, and Qt versions, as well as other things that we get a lot of questions about: keyboard shortcuts, color schemes, settings for the version control system, devices, and plugins.

    [quote]Thanks a whole bunch. I'm up and running now. 'nuf said.[/quote]Glad to hear. Happy coding!


Log in to reply
 

Looks like your connection to Qt Forum was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.