Nokia to use Android?

disperso

When I used an N97, I was surprised to see that you had to scroll pressing the tiny scrollbar on the side, instead of sweeping any part of the screen. It was a clear sign that it wasn't ready for touch, as nobody does that nowadays, not even Nokia on their new phones.

The N8 (or Symbian^3) only has T9 keyboard in portrait mode (you can install swype, ok). I like this kind of keyboard, and I'm pretty sure that it probably works better than the T9 keyboard on my Desire (it has plenty of unacceptable bugs, like storing passwords on the dictionary). But the lack of choice I think is a symptom of not being ready for touch.

Is not only the lack of partners. It's the lack of interest in the whole community. Now that Symbian is open source, you could expect some interest by open source enthusiasts. I haven't seen it at all. Instead, I've seen harsh critics (that I can't judge, since I don't known about the internals). A lot of them.

xsacha

[quote author="disperso" date="1292161859"]When I used an N97, I was surprised to see that you had to scroll pressing the tiny scrollbar on the side[/quote]
Well in a firmware update, the N97 and 5800 were given Kinetic scrolling. All Symbian^3 phones have this too.
This period where you had to use a tiny scrollbar was 2 years ago. At the time there was one Android phone on the market which was lacking a lot and was quite ugly. Similarly, the iPhone had just received an SDK and still couldn't multi-task, bluetooth or send MMS. This was the dark ages.

[quote author="disperso" date="1292161859"]The N8 (or Symbian^3) only has T9 keyboard in portrait mode[/quote]

Two years ago when Symbian Touch launched the keyboard options were: Portrait QWERTY, Portrait alphanumerical, Landscape QWERTY, Landscape alphanumerical, Floating QWERTY, handwriting (and more depending on locale).
Portrait QWERTY is temporarily removed for one firmware revision in S^3. It will be back within the month.
In addition, you can install third-party QWERTY keyboards including Baidu, Dayhand, SouGo, slideIT, Swype, Virtual Keyboard and also Baidu mods including Opera keyboard, iPhone keyboard and Milk. There's probably more I haven't mentioned.

[quote author="disperso" date="1292161859"]lack of choice I think is a symptom of not being ready for touch.[/quote]

They removed one in-built keyboard two years after having it. This isn't a 'symptom of not being ready for touch'.

iOS, WebOS and WP7 platform only give you one keyboard. And you aren't allowed to install third-party keyboards. Are they not ready for touch?

The only keyboard experience that compares to Symbian is Android.
It's definitely a strong point -- for both platforms.

[quote author="disperso" date="1292161859"]Now that Symbian is open source, you could expect some interest by open source enthusiasts.[/quote]
People don't exactly announce when they are interested in something. The apps just pop up later.
400, 000 developers signed up and there were 1.5 million downloads of the NokiaQtSDK. That could show interest.

kamalakshantv

[quote author="disperso" date="1292161859"]
Is not only the lack of partners. It's the lack of interest in the whole community. Now that Symbian is open source, you could expect some interest by open source enthusiasts. I haven't seen it at all. Instead, I've seen harsh critics (that I can't judge, since I don't known about the internals). A lot of them.[/quote]

Now Symbian is back to licensing model. Symbian PDK 3.0.5 would probably the last one to have the code released in public domain.

disperso

I don't have a strong opinion since I haven't used extensively any of the recent Symbian phones with touch screens, much less after firmware updates. However, I can't help the fact that I see still too many parts of the Symbian UI that need the necessary break with the past to be more oriented to touch input. When I compare it to a platform that has been built to be used just with touch input (e.g. meego), I see too different stuff.

But anyways, it's not just that. I'm a linux user, and you know how painful is to develop for Symbian here. It's getting better, and very fast, and I'm sure that next year developing for Symbian and MeeGo (and Android?) at the same time is going to be easier than with other systems.

But anyways, it's not just me, it's a huge amount of people that dislike internal symbian stuff, plus all the burden that puts on the developer's shoulder.

Some references:

"Symbian, the Biggest Mobile OS No One Talks About":http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/10/07/05/1829243/Symbian-the-Biggest-Mobile-OS-No-One-Talks-About
"Nokia Trades Symbian For MeeGo In N-Series Smartphones":http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/06/24/2257235/Nokia-Trades-Symbian-For-MeeGo-In-N-Series-Smartphones

disperso

BTW, I don't want to sound as if I think that Symbian completely sucks, and the others rock. I'm not buying an iDevice even if someone points my family with a gun. I own an Android device, and I think it has a huge amount of problems (at least for me). If the N900 had a capacitive screen and more portrait operation, I would be a happy owner of one. I'm a big advocate of how nokia is doing everything right now. Even if MeeGo doesn't rock the world, I'm pretty sure I will buy the first MeeGo phone that comes to market.

kamalakshantv

I agree that it puts lot of burden on developers and developing for Symbian on Linux platform is a pain. Regarding the Meego and Symbian plan - Meego will be supported on high end smart computers and tablets competing with other products in the iPhone and iPad range. And Symbian would be installed on devices in Mid Range smart phone category.

xsacha

I think using an Android device while Symbian gets its act together is fine.
But it will get its act together. I'm confident in a few months they'll refresh the UI. It seems the only issue people have with it is the UI. That's also actually the easiest part of the OS to change. Think about the UI in one of your apps. It's much harder to change the back-end code with custom assembler or what-have-you.

[quote author="QtK" date="1292169418"]Regarding the Meego and Symbian plan - Meego will be supported on high end smart computers and tablets competing with other products in the iPhone and iPad range. And Symbian would be installed on devices in Mid Range smart phone category. [/quote]
I don't consider the iPhone high-end. Unless they radically re-position their product in the next few months. It's a low to mid-end device that happens to have a lot of apps because it has a lot of customer base who are willing to pay money. When it first came out it was worse than a Series 40 phone in every conceivable way. The only thing that changed? The apps.

Meego is aiming at mobile computers (+phone). The same as Maemo is positioned now. The only competition is high-end Android's.

disperso

[quote author="xsacha" date="1292191606"]I think using an Android device while Symbian gets its act together is fine.
But it will get its act together. I'm confident in a few months they'll refresh the UI. It seems the only issue people have with it is the UI. That's also actually the easiest part of the OS to change. Think about the UI in one of your apps. It's much harder to change the back-end code with custom assembler or what-have-you.[/quote]

I think that the best move that Nokia has done in the recent months, is the decision of moving 100% to Qt. Since then, I think that I've seen an increase in the amount of traffic that the qml mailing list receives, and many are Nokia employees. I think this is great news for everybody.

[quote]I don't consider the iPhone high-end. Unless they radically re-position their product in the next few months. It's a low to mid-end device that happens to have a lot of apps because it has a lot of customer base who are willing to pay money. When it first came out it was worse than a Series 40 phone in every conceivable way. The only thing that changed? The apps.

Meego is aiming at mobile computers (+phone). The same as Maemo is positioned now. The only competition is high-end Android's.[/quote]

The iPhone is high-end in price. An unlocked iPhone costs more than an unlocked-anything. It certainly is limited in some aspects (when I saw that for the first time they allowed folders to sort the apps I looked with bright eyes my old N81), but it's powerful in the sense that people pay a lot for it, and are even willing to pay for apps. I still don't understand why angry birds was 1.x euro (spain, some weeks ago) and it was free on android. :P

xsacha

Angry Birds is ad-supported on Android (which is why it is free).

Although, I have come across a few apps that are free on Symbian but cost money on an iPhone.
A friend was playing with an app on my phone the other day and I asked him why he can't use his phone for it (he has an iPhone). He told me it wasn't worth $4 and it's free on mine.

But in general, the users are willing to pay more for everything. Which is why it is a great platform for making paid apps I guess.
It's also a good target market for Apple. High-end price with high-end (design/UI), low-end (features - S40 like) software and mid-end hardware.

milot.shala

Yesterday I was reading this which IMO is a very good article: "http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2010/12/some-symbian-sanity-why-nokia-will-not-join-google-android-or-microsoft-phone-7.html":http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2010/12/some-symbian-sanity-why-nokia-will-not-join-google-android-or-microsoft-phone-7.html