FPilot 0 Posted April 11, 2004 Report Share Posted April 11, 2004 (As originally posted circa 1 year ago. Revisions will come as needed.) MECHWARRIOR: DARK AGE TO CAV I bought the CAV "Journal of Recognition" about a week ago and have been pouring over the construction rules. I don't own any miniatures of it or of Mechwarrior: Dark Age, but the Wizkids webpage has all sorts of helpful information. CAV and MWDA are quite likeable in their game philosophies, so a port from one to another is actually quite easy. By extension, Classic Battletech and its systems suffer, and that game isn't as easy to reconcile. I don't have all the answers. This is only a first step. I'm concentrating on Mechs and CAVs now...material specific to vehicles and infantry units may follow soon. *Value of the DT in Clicks: Light Mechs (20 Tons or less, 10 or 11 Main Dial Clicks)--2 DTs Light and Medium Mechs (25 to 40 Tons, 10 to 12 Main Dial Clicks)--3 DTs Medium and Heavy Mechs (45 to 60 Tons, 11 to 15 Main Dial Clicks)--4 DTs Heavy and Assault Mechs (65 to 80 Tons, 14 to 16 Main Dial Clicks)--5 DTs Assault Mechs (85 to 100 Tons, 16 or 17 Main Dial Clicks)--6 DTs Since the levels of 7 and 8 DTs are reserved for CAVs in excess of 100 Tons, no MWDA Mech qualifies for these. *Crew All Mechs have only 1 Crewman, so the Pilot and WSO are one and the same. Unique = Ace Crew Elite = Elite Crew Veteran = Veteran Crew Green = Regular Crew *Movement: Movement distances in MWDA are doubled in CAV. Use the chart on pg. 139 of the JoR to figure degradation, and don't forget to calculate the power for movement from the paragraph at the top of pg. 140. *Armor: Mechs with Hardened, Heavy, Reflective and/or Reactive Armor in MWDA get bonus Armor in CAV. The effects of the bonus are NOT cumulative--if a Mech has both Hardened and Heavy Armor it can only take the bonus for Hardened. Use the chart on the bottom of pg. 140 of the JoR to figure degradation. Hardened = +3 Armor Heavy = +2 Armor Reflective or Reactive = +1 Armor *ACA: Mechs with the following Special Equipment get bonuses to ACA... Anti-Personnel = +1 ACA Hand to Hand = +2 ACA Rapid Strike = +1 ACA The bonuses are cumulative, but the maximum for the game is +3. Use the D table on pg. 140 of the JoR to figure degradation. *DCA: Mechs with the following Special Equipment get bonuses to DCA... Agility = +2 DCA Evade = +1 DCA The bonuses are cumulative, the game maximum is +8. Use the E table on pg. 140 of the JoR to figure degradation. *Power: Power = Main Dial Clicks plus Heat Dial Clicks. Use the chart at the bottom of pg. 141 of the JoR to figure degradation. *Targeting Computer: Mechs with Improved Targeting get a +3 TL rating. In addition, the following Special Equipment get TL rating bonuses... Alpha Strike = +1 TL Armor Piercing = +1 TL Pulse Fire = +1 TL Streak Missile = +1 TL The bonuses are cumulative, the maximum for the game is +5. Use the table on pg. 142 of the JoR to figure degradation. *ECM: Mechs with the following Special Equipment get bonuses on ECM... Decoy = +2 ECM Evade = +2 ECM The bonuses are cumulative, the maximum for the game is +5. Use the table on pg. 143 of the JoR to figure degradation. *Weapon Stats: Weapons that do 1 or 2 Clicks (or up to 6 CBT Damage Points) are +0. Weapons that do 3 Clicks (or 7 to 11 CBT Points) are +1. Weapons that do 4 Clicks (or 12 to 16 CBT Points) are +2. Weapons that do 5 Clicks (or 17 to 20 CBT Points) are +3. [From Feedback: MWDA weaponry don't do more than 5 Clicks of damage. Since a MWDA mech has 10 to 17 clicks, that means that none of them can deliver firepower in the volume that the native CAV weapons can. When CAV initially appeared, I did a Mean Damage Probability analysis of the included weapons. On AVERAGE, a direct hit from a +6 or better weapon will totally waste a Light or Medium mech...and any +4 or better weapon has a chance of destroying ANY mech in the game with one shot! You just don't have that level of firepower in CBT or MWDA. It's difficult to reconcile systems with constant-damage weapons versus those with random- or variable-damage ones. That and as I said, the players are still free to mount JoR menu guns on their machines, so long as they pay the penalties. TANSTAAFL.] Weapons Ranges are doubled, rounded to the next level in CAV. MWDA -> CAV 6 -> 12 8 -> 18 10 -> 24 12 -> 32 14 -> 36 Missile Weapons that have Ranges of 12 or more in MWDA are considered Indirect Fire for CAV. Else consider them Direct Fire. Follow the instructions on the top of pg 144 of the JoR for figuring degradation. All Ballistic Non-Missile Weapons use the Gauss Cannon/Rotary Cannon chart on pg. 145 of the JoR for degradation figures. All Non-Flamer Energy Weapons use the HS Laser Bolt/Particle Bolt System chart on pg. 146 of the JoR for degradation figures. Else, use the Flamer chart on pg. 144 of the JoR. * * * YOU WANNA DO WATT?! This is a little follow-up to my Battletech -> CAV port. Way back in the late 1980s, I did some analysis of the Battletech numbers and found out that multiplying the Engine Rating by 60 will give you "Real World" Horsepower (and multiplying Engine Rating by .045 will give you MegaWattage). Since in my port, I set the engine powers to the same envelope by making the exchange rate 16 to 1 (ER/16=PW), we can use the CAV game's figures to arrive at power expenditure. HP=PW*960 MW=PW*.72 This might be helpful to those adventuresome souls who want to port anime mecha and have hard figures that otherwise don't make sense. EXAMPLE: The RX-78 Gundam from "First Gundam" carries a beam rifle that has an output of 1.9 MW. {1.9/.72=2.6, rounds up to 3.} In CAV, this weapon would have a power cost of 3. This roughly corresponds to the KODA Works RNW4 from the JoR. The player can use this weapon or design another with roughly the same parameters using the rules in JoR, pg. 145/146. [For a 3-Power Cost weapon, there is a limited envelope of firepower: it can be (+2/+1), (+2/+2), (+3/+1) or (+4/+0) in the Zero Column.] * * * THE CAV/CBT FIREPOWER GAP Among the limited feedback about my attempted port of CBT to CAV have been people taking issue about my assessment of the firepower of CBT weaponry versus CAV. I have a little more "ammunition" to present: Weapon Mass. I calculated the CAV Weapon Mass stats using guidelines from the JoR. This is an overall comparison by Weapon Class. DF Missile Packs CBT Mass Range: 1.0 to 3.0 Tons CAV: 3.3 to 14.6 Tons IF Missile Packs CBT: 1.0 to 10.0 Tons CAV: 5.9 to 25.8 Tons Flamers CBT: .5 to 1.0 Tons CAV: 13.2 to 14.6 Tons Autocannon CBT: 5.0 to 14.0 Tons CAV: (Autocannon considered obsolete and replaced by Gauss and Gauss Gatling) Gauss Cannon CBT: 12.0 to 15.0 Tons CAV: 11.7 to 28.9 Tons Laser Bolt Guns CBT: .5 to 7.0 Tons CAV: 2.2 to 10.7 Tons Particle Bolt Guns CBT: 6.0 to 7.0 Tons CAV: 11.4 to 14.7 Tons Even if you consider the tech and efficiency levels to be comparable, the CAV weapons should be more powerful because of their larger scale and capacity. Otherwise you open the door to munchy exploitation of smaller and cheaper CBT weaponry in lieu of the Rulebook/JoR standards. If you want to do your own CAV hardware points/tonnage comparisons, these are the figures by manufacturer: HUGHES-MARIETTA: 2.8 pts/ton MITSO-TA: 3.3 pts/ton MARK IV: 3.6 pts/ton GRUNDOR HOUSE, R.M.I., KODA WORKS, BORSIG-SPLINE: 3.8pts/ton K.D.M.: 4.1 pts/ton SYRAM: 4.6 pts/ton * * * STATS OVERVIEW: THE UNSEEN OF BATTLETECH (I'm presenting all these 'Mechs without Weapons stats because of the contraversy. I'm maintaining my contention that in comparison to CAV, the weapons of the Battletech/MWDA game are underpowered because of their smaller size and less efficient and obsolete technology. Since I used the standard degradation for all hardware, I'm taking the suggestion of posting only the Zero Point stats. (To get around the CAV weapons space restriction, in many cases I "doubled" weapons, similar to the "twin-linking" rule in Warhammer 40,000 VDR. I even "tripled" them in the cases of two specific Mechs. This means that the weapons are in the same location and always fire at the same target.) LOCUST 2 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 24. POWER: 2. COST: 27 ACA: -1. COST: 1 DCA: +2. COST: 1 ARM: +2. COST: 6 PW: 10. COST: 12 TL: +3. COST: 11 ECM: +3. COST: 6 CHAIN LOCK POD; POWER: 2. COST: 19 WEAPONRY: 1 MEDIUM LASER AND 1 DOUBLED SMALL LASER. BREEDER: LTV 160 TARGET: CALCMASTER ECM: GARRET T-10 TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV ROLE: SCOUT COST BEFORE WEAPONS: 83 POINTS STINGER AND WASP 2 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 18. POWER: 2 [4 WHEN JUMPING]. COST: 21 ACA: +2. COST: 1 DCA: +5. COST: 2 ARM: +2. COST: 6 PW: 8. COST: 10 TL: +4. COST: 14 ECM: +3. COST: 6 JUMP JETS; COST: 6 WEAPONRY: [sTINGER] DOUBLED MACHINE GUNS; [WASP] SRM 2 PACK; [bOTH] 1 MEDIUM LASER. BREEDER: GM 120 TARGET: DYNATEC 990 ECM: IRIAN TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV WITH JUMP ROLE: SCOUT COST BEFORE WEAPONS: 66 POINTS OSTSCOUT 3 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 24. POWER: 2 [4 WHEN JUMPING]. COST:41 ACA: -2. COST: 1 DCA: +0. COST: 0 ARM: +2. COST: 8 PW: 18. COST: 22 TL: +5. COST: 26 ECM: +5. COST: 16 CHAIN LOCK POD; POWER: 2. COST: 25 ECCM POD; POWER: 3. COST: 27 JUMP JETS; COST: 8. WEAPONRY: 1 MEDIUM LASER. BREEDER: VOX 280 TARGET: TRSS 2L3 ECM: BARRET TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV WITH JUMP ROLE: SCOUT COST BEFORE WEAPONS: 148 POINTS GRIFFIN 4 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 16. POWER: 4 [8 WHEN JUMPING]. COST: 33 ACA: +0. COST: 1 DCA: +2. COST: 2 ARM: +3. COST: 18 PW: 17. COST: 32 TL: +3. COST: 18 ECM: +3. COST: 11 JUMP JETS; COST: 5 WEAPONRY: 1 PPC AND 1 LRM 5 POD. BREEDER: CORETECH 275 TARGET: TARTRAC C ECM: NEIL 6000 TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV WITH JUMP ROLE: SUPERIORITY COST BEFORE WEAPONS: 120 POINTS OSTROC AND OSTSOL 4 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 16. POWER: 4. COST: 33 ACA: +3. COST: 2 DCA: +4. COST: 3 ARM: +3. COST: 18 PW: 19. COST: 35 TL: +3. COST: 18 ECM: +2. COST: 8 WEAPONRY: [OSTROC] 1 LRM 5 POD OR 1 SRM 6 POD; [bOTH] 1 DOUBLED LARGE LASER AND 1 DOUBLED MEDIUM LASER; [OSTSOL] 1 ADDITIONAL DOUBLED MEDIUM LASER. BREEDER: VLAR 300 TARGET: FERDINAND A ECM: OSTMANN-L TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV ROLE: SUPERIORITY COST BEFORE WEAPONS: 117 POINTS PHOENIX HAWK 4 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 16. POWER: 4 [8 WHEN JUMPING]. COST: 33 ACA: +0. COST: 1 DCA: +2. COST: 2 ARM: +2. COST: 14 PW: 17. COST: 32 TL: +3. COST: 18 ECM: +1. COST: 4 JUMP JETS; COST: 6 WEAPONRY: 1 LARGE LASER, 1 DOUBLED MEDIUM LASER AND 1 DOUBLED MACHINE GUNS. BREEDER: GM 270 TARGET: TARTRAC C ECM: NEIL 6000 TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV WITH JUMP ROLE: FAST ATTACK COST BEFORE WEAPONS: 114 POINTS RIFLEMAN 4 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 12. POWER: 4. COST: 24 ACA: -1. COST: 1 DCA: +3. COST: 2 ARM: +2. COST: 14 PW: 15. COST: 28 TL: +5. COST: 27 ECM: +5. COST: 18 WEAPONRY: 1 DOUBLED LARGE LASER, 1 DOUBLED AC/5 AND 1 DOUBLED MEDIUM LASER. [sOME VARIANTS REPLACE THE LARGE LASERS WITH MORE AC/5S OR VICE VERSA.] BREEDER: PITBAN 240 TARGET: GARRET D2 ECM: GARRET T11 TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV ROLE: AIR DEFENSE COST BEFORE WEAPONS: 114 POINTS SCORPION 4 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 18. POWER: 4. COST: 37 ACA: -1. COST: 1 DCA: +2. COST: 2 ARM: +2. COST: 24 PW: 21. COST: 38 TL: +2. COST: 12 ECM: +2. COST: 8 WEAPONRY: 1 PPC AND 1 SRM 6 PACK. BREEDER: VOX 330 TARGET: GRANDTRACK ECM: GARRET 500A TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV, QUAD LEGS ROLE: SUPERIORITY COST BEFORE WEAPONS: 122 POINTS SHADOW HAWK 4 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 16. POWER: 4 [8 WHEN JUMPING]. COST: 33 ACA: +3. COST: 2 DCA: +5. COST: 4 ARM: +3. COST: 18 PW: 17. COST: 32 TL: +4. COST: 21 ECM: +2. COST: 8 JUMP JETS; COST: 5 WEAPONRY: 1 AC/5, 1 LRM 5 AND 1 MEDIUM LASER. BREEDER: CORETECH 275 TARGET: INSTATRAK ECM: NEIL 9000 TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV WITH JUMP ROLE: SUPERIORITY COST BEFORE WEAPONS: 123 POINTS WOLVERINE 4 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 16. POWER: 4 [8 WHEN JUMPING]. COST: 33 ACA: +3. COST: 2 DCA: +5. COST: 4 ARM: +3. COST: 18 PW: 17. COST: 32 TL: +3. COST: 18 ECM: +2. COST: 8 JUMP JETS; COST: 5 WEAPONRY: 1 AC/5, 1 SRM 6 POD AND 1 MEDIUM LASER. BREEDER: CORETECH 275 TARGET: SYNCTRAK ECM: GARRET T11 TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV WITH JUMP ROLE: SUPERIORITY COST BEFORE WEAPONS: 120 POINTS. ARCHER 5 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 12. POWER: 4. COST: 29 ACA: +0. COST: 1 DCA: +0. COST: 0 ARM: +3. COST: 24 PW: 18. COST: 43 TL: +3. COST: 18 ECM: +1. COST: 4 WEAPONRY: 2 LRM 20 PODS AND 2 DOUBLED MEDIUM LASERS. BREEDER: VOX 280 TARGET: INSTATRAK 12 ECM: NEIL 9000 TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV ROLE: SUPERIORITY/FIRE SUPPORT COST BEFORE WEAPONS: 139 POINTS CRUSADER 5 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 12. POWER: 4. COST: 29 ACA: +0. COST: 1 DCA: +2. COST: 2 ARM: +3. COST: 24 PW: 16. COST: 38 TL: +4. COST: 23 ECM: +3. COST: 11 WEAPONRY: 2 LRM 15 PODS, 1 DOUBLED SRM 6 POD, 1 DOUBLED MEDIUM LASER AND 1 DOUBLED MACHINE GUNS. BREEDER: MAGNA 260 TARGET: GARRET A6 ECM: GARRET T11 TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV ROLE: SUPERIORITY COST BEFORE WEAPONS: 128 POINTS GOLIATH 5 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 12. POWER: 4. COST: 29 ACA: +0. COST: 1 DCA: +2. COST: 2 ARM: +3. COST: 36 PW: 20. COST: 48 TL: +3. COST: 18 ECM: +3. COST: 11 WEAPONRY: 1 GAUSS RIFLE, 1 LRM 20 POD AND 1 DOUBLED MACHINE GUNS. BREEDER: PITBAN 320 TARGET: COREAN BT ECM: COREAN J9 TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV, QUAD LEGS ROLE: FIRE SUPPORT COST BEFORE WEAPONS: 145 POINTS MARAUDER 5 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 12. POWER: 4. COST: 29 ACA: +1. COST: 1 DCA: +2. COST: 2 ARM: +3. COST: 24 PW: 19. COST: 46 TL: +3. COST: 18 ECM: +3. COST: 11 WEAPONRY: 2 PPC, 1 DOUBLED MEDIUM LASER AND 1 AC/5. BREEDER: VLAR 300 TARGET: DALBAN HR ECM: DALBAN TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV ROLE: SUPERIORITY COST BEFORE WEAPONS: 131 POINTS THUNDERBOLT 5 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 12. POWER: 4. COST: 29 ACA: +2. COST: 1 DCA: +3. COST: 3 ARM: +3. COST: 24 PW: 16. COST: 38 TL: +3. COST: 18 ECM: +2. COST: 8 WEAPONRY: 1 LARGE LASER, 1 LRM 15 POD, 1 SRM 2 POD AND 1 TRIPLED MEDIUM LASER. BREEDER: MAGNA 260 TARGET: RCA IT MK.X ECM: NEIL 8000 TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV ROLE: SUPERIORITY COST BEFORE WEAPONS: 121 POINTS WARHAMMER 5 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 12. POWER: 4. COST: 29 ACA: +1. COST: 1 DCA: +2. COST: 2 ARM: +2. COST: 18 PW: 18. COST: 43 TL: +3. COST: 18 ECM: +3. COST: 11 WEAPONRY: 2 PPC, 1 DOUBLED MEDIUM LASER AND 1 DOUBLED MACHINE GUNS. [sOME VARIANTS ALSO ADD AN LRM 20 PACK.] BREEDER: VOX 280 TARGET: WASAT ECM: BARRET PL TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV ROLE: SUPERIORITY COST BEFORE WEAPONS: 122 POINTS BATTLEMASTER 6 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 12. POWER: 4. COST: 32 ACA: +3. COST: 2 DCA: +6. COST: 7 ARM: +3. COST: 30 PW: 21. COST: 57 TL: +3. COST: 18 ECM: +2. COST: 9 WEAPONRY: 1 PPC, 2 TRIPLED MEDIUM LASERS, AND 1 SRM 6 POD. BREEDER: VOX 340 TARGET: WASAT ECM: BARRET TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV ROLE: ASSAULT COST BEFORE WEAPONS: 155 POINTS LONGBOW 6 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 10. POWER: 4. COST: 28 ACA: -1. COST: 1 DCA: +0. COST: 0 ARM: +3. COST: 30 PW: 16. COST: 43 TL: +5. COST: 29 ECM: +2. COST: 9 CHAIN LOCK POD; POWER: 2. COST: 33 WEAPONRY: 2 LRM 20 PACKS. BREEDER: STRAND 225 TARGET : MACKFAY ECM: LAMINGTON L TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV ROLE: FIRE SUPPORT COST BEFORE WEAPONS: 174 POINTS * * * CAV STATS ARSENAL MAIN BATTLE TANK Comment: This tank design turned out to be bigger and nastier than I had planned...but to survive in the CAV-verse you need to pile on the badness. You can go to the discount toy store and pick up some diecast tanks to proxy these guys. (Real-life tanks on which this one was based: Japanese Type 90, British Challenger, M1A1 Abrams, Le Clerc.) The two machine guns are beefed-up Infantry/Vehicle guns, built to last the whole battle. One MG is coaxial to the main gun and the other is mounted either on the cupola or in the hull. 4 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 22. POWER: 6. COST: 44 ACA: +1. COST: 1 DCA: +4. COST: 3 ARM: +3. COST: 18 PW: 25. COST: 47 TL: +2. COST: 9 ECM: +4. COST: 14 WEAPONRY: MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 4; COST: 41 MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 4; COST: 41 MAIN GUN; RNG 48; H/S (+4/+2); POWER: 4; COST: 50 BREEDER: PATROCLUS TARGET: REV 500 ECM: VEX D-C 8 TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: TRACKED ROLE: TANK COST: 268 POINTS STRIKE-FIGHTER JET Comment: The following design is a typical end-of-20th Century jet strike-fighter, with no particular machine in mind but in the same general class as several: Blackburn Buccaneer; Panavia Tornado; Mikoyan Flogger; Sukhoi Fitter VG; F/A-18 Hornet; Xian JH-7 Flying Leopard, just to name a few. I didn't invent a name or assign it to a UCOR because I thought these machines would be commonly found in the CAV-verse and be used by all sides. If you want models, just go to the toy aisle of a discount store and get some pocket-size diecast toy planes! Many of these planes come in both single-seat and two-seat versions, so players have the option of assigning a WSO to one if desired. The Vulcan Gun is on the Main mount. The Napalm Bombs were designed using the Flamer rules, as the effect is about the same ruleswise. The Maverick Rack and the Napalm Bombs are designed to be nearly the same points cost, so a player can have a fighter with two Mav's on his plane (if he's facing a CAV-heavy opponent) or two Napes (if he's vulching on infantry and other softie targets) and it wouldn't make much points difference. I know the powerplant is a little weak; it's to force the crews to do a little strategizing. It only costs 8 points more to upgrade to an engine that will power everything at #2 Damage Track, so that option is there. 2 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 48. POWER: 6. COST: 54 ACA: +0. COST: 1 DCA: +2. COST: 1 ARM: +2. COST: 6 PW: 13. COST: 15 TL: +3. COST: 11 ECM: +4. COST: 8 WEAPONRY: NAPALM BOMBS; RNG 18; H/S (+2/+4); POWER: 2; COST: 26 DF MAVERICK RACK; RNG 32; H/S (+3/+2); POWER: 2; COST: 27 VULCAN GUN; RNG 32; H/S (+4/+1); POWER: 4; COST: 18 BREEDER: TURBOMASTER F200 TARGET : BLIVET O-T ECM: CHAFFCHUCKER TARGET TYPE: SOFT MOVE TYPE: AIR ROLE: AIRCRAFT COST: 167 POINTS V.O.T.O.M.S. SCOPEDOG Comment: The Scopedog is a cannon-fodder VOTOM of the Melkian and Gilgameth armies, and about as common as pickup trucks are. Scopedogs don't have much in the way of hardware or abilities, but they'll still hang tough, especially in the hands of a good driver. The Scopedog's high commonality and prevalence has led to many variants, including the Brutishdog, the Purple Bear, the Strong Baccus and the Marshydog. 2 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 16 [using SMS]/10 [walking]. POWER: 3 [sMS]/2 [walking]. COST: 20 ACA: +3. COST: 1 DCA: +3. COST: 1 ARM: +1. COST: 4 PW: 20. COST: 23 TL: +2. COST: 8 ECM: +2. COST: 5 SMS UNIT: COST: 8 WEAPONRY: GRENADE LAUNCHER; RNG 36; H/S (+0/+2); POWER: 4; COST: 13 GAT-22 RIFLE; RNG 24; H/S (+1/+0); POWER: 4; COST: 1 BREEDER: TAKARA 135 TARGET: TAKAHASHI ECM: OKAWARA TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV W/SMS ROLE: GENERAL PURPOSE COST: 84 POINTS HEAVY GEARS CHEETAH 2 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 30 [using SMS]/18 [walking]. POWER: 3 [sMS]/2 [walking]. COST: 34 ACA: +3. COST: 1 DCA: +8. COST: 4 ARM: +1. COST: 4 PW: 13. COST: 15 TL: +2. COST: 8 ECM: +3. COST: 6 SMS UNIT: COST: 9 WEAPONRY: DF PEPPERBOX LRP 24; RNG 12; H/S (+2/+2); POWER: 1; COST: 14 PACK GUN; RNG 24; H/S (+2/+1); POWER: 4; COST: 8 BREEDER: SV820S TARGET: SHAIAN ECM: SHAIAN TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV W/SMS ROLE: SCOUT/GENERAL PURPOSE COST: 103 POINTS HUNTER 2 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 24 [using SMS]/14 [walking]. POWER: 3 [sMS]/2 [walking]. COST: 27 ACA: +3. COST: 1 DCA: +3. COST: 1 ARM: +1. COST: 4 PW: 13. COST: 15 TL: +2. COST: 8 ECM: +2. COST: 5 SMS UNIT: COST: 8 WEAPONRY: DF PEPPERBOX LRP 24; RNG 12; H/S (+2/+2); POWER: 1; COST: 14 LIGHT A-CANNON; RNG 24; H/S (+2/+1); POWER: 4; COST: 8 BREEDER: SV 950A TARGET: NORTHCO ECM: BOT PROJECT TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV W/SMS ROLE: GENERAL PURPOSE COST: 91 POINTS JAGUAR 2 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 26 [using SMS]/16 [walking]. POWER: 3 [sMS]/2 [walking]. COST: 29 ACA: +3. COST: 1 DCA: +7. COST: 2 ARM: +2. COST: 6 PW: 13. COST: 15 TL: +3. COST: 11 ECM: +2. COST: 5 SMS UNIT: COST: 10 WEAPONRY: DF PEPPERBOX LRP 24; RNG 12; H/S (+2/+2); POWER: 1; COST: 14 MEDIUM A-CANNON; RNG 36; H/S (+2/+1); POWER: 4; COST: 15 BREEDER: SV 1110 TARGET: NORTHCO ECM: BOT PROJECT TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV W/SMS ROLE: GENERAL PURPOSE COST: 108 POINTS GRIZZLY 2 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 22 [using SMS]/14 [walking]. POWER: 3 [sMS]/2 [walking]. COST: 25 ACA: +3. COST: 1 DCA: +3. COST: 1 ARM: +2. COST: 6 PW: 15. COST: 17 TL: +2. COST: 8 ECM: +2. COST: 5 SMS UNIT: COST: 12 WEAPONRY: IF MORTAR; RNG 60; H/S (+3/+3); POWER: 2; COST: 46 MEDIUM A-CANNON; RNG 36; H/S (+2/+1); POWER: 4; COST: 15 BREEDER: SV 2200Z TARGET: SHAIAN ECM: BOT PROJECT TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV W/SMS ROLE: GENERAL PURPOSE/SUPPORT COST: 126 POINTS (On all Southern Gears, on the TARGETER and ECM lines on the bottom I put in TERRITORIAL ARMS.) IGUANA 2 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 28 [using SMS]/18 [walking]. POWER: 3 [sMS]/2 [walking]. COST: 32 ACA: +3. COST: 1 DCA: +7. COST: 2 ARM: +1. COST: 4 PW: 13. COST: 18 TL: +2. COST: 8 ECM: +3. COST: 6 SMS UNIT: COST: 9 WEAPONRY: DF LRP 24; RNG 12; H/S (+2/+2); POWER: 1; COST: 14 PACK GUN; RNG 24; H/S (+2/+1); POWER: 4; COST: 8 BREEDER: WV 750 TC TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV W/SMS ROLE: GENERAL PURPOSE/SCOUT COST: 99 POINTS NOTE: JAGER IS STATISTICALLY IDENTICAL TO HUNTER, AT 91 POINTS. CHANGE BREEDER TO: WV 950A. BLACK MAMBA 2 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 28 [using SMS]/18 [walking]. POWER: 3 [sMS]/2 [walking]. COST: 32 ACA: +3. COST: 1 DCA: +7. COST: 2 ARM: +2. COST: 6 PW: 13. COST: 15 TL: +4. COST: 11 ECM: +3. COST: 6 SMS UNIT: COST: 10 WEAPONRY: DF LRP 32; RNG 12; H/S (+2/+2); POWER: 1; COST: 14 MEDIUM A-CANNON; RNG 36; H/S (+2/+1); POWER: 4; COST: 15 BREEDER: WV 930 TC TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV W/SMS ROLE: GENERAL PURPOSE COST: 112 POINTS SPITTING COBRA 2 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 20 [using SMS]/12 [walking]. POWER: 3 [sMS]/2 [walking]. COST: 23 ACA: +3. COST: 1 DCA: +3. COST: 1 ARM: +2. COST: 6 PW: 15. COST: 17 TL: +2. COST: 8 ECM: +2. COST: 5 SMS UNIT: COST: 11 WEAPONRY: DF HRP 48; RNG 36; H/S (+3/+3); POWER: 2; COST: 35 MEDIUM A-CANNON; RNG 36; H/S (+2/+1); POWER: 4; COST: 15 BREEDER: WV 1500 TC TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: CAV W/SMS ROLE: GENERAL PURPOSE/SUPPORT COST: 122 POINTS GEAR WEAPONRY: Disposable Pack Gun, Very Light Rifle, Light Autocannon, Very Light Autocannon: RNG 24; H/S (+2/+1); POWER 4; COST 8. Light Rifle, Medium Autocannon, Heavy Autocannon: RNG 36; H/S (+2/+1); POWER 4; COST 15. Very Heavy Autocannon: RNG 36; H/S (+3/+1); POWER 4; COST 18. Frag Cannon: RNG 12; H/S (+2/+3); POWER 4; COST 12. Medium Rifle, Heavy Rifle: RNG 48; H/S (+2/+1); POWER 4; COST 22. Snub Cannon: RNG 12; H/S (+4/+1); POWER 4; COST 12. Light Grenade Launcher: RNG 12; H/S (+2/+4); POWER 4; COST 15. Heavy Grenade Launcher: RNG 24; H/S (+3/+4); POWER 4; COST 21. Very Light Rockets, Light Rockets: RNG 12; H/S (+2/+2); POWER 1; COST 14. Incendiary Rockets: RNG 12; H/S (+3/+4); POWER 2; COST 29. Medium Rockets: RNG 24; H/S (+3/+3); POWER 2; COST 28. Heavy Rockets, Heavy Incendiary Rockets: RNG 36; H/S (+3/+4); POWER 2; COST 40. Airburst Missile: RNG 36; AOE 3; H/S (+2/+2); POWER 1; COST 35. AntiGear Missile: RNG 36; H/S (+3/+1); POWER 1; COST 26. Antitank Missile: RNG 36; H/S (+4/+1); POWER 2; COST 32. Heavy Antitank Missile: RNG 36; H/S (+5/+1); POWER 2; COST 49. Light Panzerfaust: RNG 12: H/S (+2/+1); POWER 1; COST 10. Medium Panzerfaust, Rapid-Fire Bazooka: RNG 12; H/S (+3/+1); POWER 1; COST 16. Heavy Panzerfaust, Medium Bazooka: RNG 24; H/S (+3/+1); POWER 1; COST 19. Heavy Bazooka: RNG 24; H/S (+4/+1); POWER 2; COST 23. Light Flamethrower: RNG 12; H/S (+1/+4); POWER 2; COST 17. Medium Flamethrower, Heavy Flamethrower: RNG 12; H/S (+2/+5); POWER 2; COST 28. AntiPersonnel Mortar: RNG 24; AOE 1; H/S (+1/+2); POWER 1; COST 18. Light Guided Mortar: RNG 36; AOE 1; H/S (+3/+3); POWER 2; COST 39. Light Field Mortar: RNG 48; AOE 1; H/S (+3/+3); POWER 2; COST 46. Medium Field Mortar, Heavy Guided Mortar: RNG 60; AOE 2; H/S (+3/+3); POWER 2; COST 53. Heavy Field Mortar: RNG 60; AOE 3; H/S (+3/+4); POWER 2; COST 61. Light Particle Accelerator: RNG 24; H/S (+2/+2); POWER 3; COST 14. Heavy Particle Accelerator, Light Pulse Laser: RNG 36; H/S (+3/+3); POWER 4; COST 26. Light Railgun, Light Laser Cannon, Heavy Laser Cannon: RNG 60; H/S (+3/+3); POWER 4; COST 37. Heavy Railgun: RNG 60; H/S (+5/+4); POWER 4; COST 51. Sniper Laser: RNG 60; H/S (+2/+2); POWER 3; COST 32. Gatling Laser: RNG 24; H/S (+3/+3); POWER 4; COST 18. Heavy Pulse Laser: RNG 36; H/S (+4/+3); POWER 4; COST 32. * * * TANKS FROM ACROSS HISTORY This selection of tanks was based on the fact of these models being available in CAV-friendly scales in toy form. I lumped some types together because they were very close statistically. I left the Breeder, Target and ECM lines blank partly out of laziness and partly to free players to use these tanks for whatever faction they want. (Hey, since Malvernis already fields the ZSU-23 "Shilka" [Poltergeist] and the Scud [Whisper], why can't they have the Soviet stuff? Ritterlich and Templar Panzers? Brits and Francs to NADO? Yanks and Japanese to UFF?) Other toys in CAV-ish scale include the Marder APC, the M109 mobile artillery piece and the Gepard anti-aircraft gun...I'm not sure if I'll adapt those to CAV soon or not. PANZER IV 2 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 10. POWER: 4. COST: 12 ACA: +1. COST: 1 DCA: +3. COST: 1 ARM: +2. COST: 6 PW: 16. COST: 19 TL: +1. COST: 5 ECM: +1. COST: 2 WEAPONRY: MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 1; COST: 13 MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 1; COST: 13 MAIN GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+3/+1); POWER: 4; COST: 10 BREEDER: TARGET: ECM: TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: TRACKED ROLE: TANK COST: 82 POINTS [Notes: The most common of the German Army's tanks in World War Two, some were still used after the war by other nations. The French reconditioned many and sold them to Arab countries, who used them to fight the Israelis.] SHERIDAN M551 2 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 18. POWER: 4. COST:21 ACA: +1. COST: 1 DCA: +3. COST: 1 ARM: +2. COST: 6 PW: 16. COST: 19 TL: +2. COST: 8 ECM: +3. COST: 6 WEAPONRY: MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 1; COST: 13 MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 1; COST: 13 DF SHILLELAGH LAUNCHER; RNG 48; H/S (+5/+2); POWER: 2; COST: 50 BREEDER: TARGET: ECM: TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: TRACKED ROLE: TANK COST: 138 POINTS [Notes: The Sheridan was an American light tank that was used for a while in Vietnam. Its main weapon was a gun that could fire anti-tank missiles instead of regular shells. I treated this weapon as a Missile Pack in the statistics.] SHERMAN "EASY EIGHT" 3 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 12. POWER: 4. COST: 21 ACA: +1. COST: 1 DCA: +2. COST: 1 ARM: +2. COST: 8 PW: 16. COST: 24 TL: +1. COST: 6 ECM: +1. COST: 4 WEAPONRY: MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 4; COST: 31 MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 4; COST: 31 MAIN GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+3/+1); POWER: 4; COST: 17 BREEDER: TARGET: ECM: TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: TRACKED ROLE: TANK COST: 144 POINTS [Note: The most common American tank of WW2, the Sherman saw further action in Korea and the Middle East. While this design presents the baseline Sherman, many Shermans were upgraded with bigger main guns (like the one on the AMX30, for example) or even had one Machine Gun replaced with a single-use Missile Pack mounted atop the turret!] CHURCHILL "CROCODILE" 3 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 6. POWER: 4. COST: 11 ACA: +1. COST: 1 DCA: +2. COST: 1 ARM: +3. COST: 14 PW: 16. COST: 24 TL: +1. COST: 6 ECM: +1. COST: 4 WEAPONRY: CROC FLAMETHROWER; RNG 18; H/S (+2/+7); POWER: 2; COST: 49 MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 4; COST: 31 MAIN GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+3/+1); POWER: 4; COST: 17 BREEDER: TARGET: ECM: TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: TRACKED ROLE: TANK COST: 158 POINTS [Note: The British Crocodile tank first saw action in North Africa and was one of the Allied tanks used for the Normandy invasion.] TYPE 61 "GODZILLA" 3 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 12. POWER: 4. COST: 21 ACA: +1. COST: 1 DCA: +4. COST: 2 ARM: +2. COST: 8 PW: 16. COST: 24 TL: +1. COST: 6 ECM: +3. COST: 9 WEAPONRY: MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 4; COST: 31 MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 4; COST: 31 MAIN GUN; RNG 24; H/S (+4/+1); POWER: 4; COST: 25 BREEDER: TARGET: ECM: TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: TRACKED ROLE: TANK COST: 158 POINTS [Notes: The Japanese Type 61 was that country's first original tank made since WW2. While it never fired a shot in anger, it saw extensive "action" as a prop in countless monster movies.] AMX 30 "NAPOLEON" / LEOPARD / T-34/85 3 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 16. POWER: 4. COST: 27 ACA: +1. COST: 1 DCA: +4. COST: 2 ARM: +2. COST: 8 PW: 16. COST: 24 TL: +1. COST: 6 ECM: +3. COST: 9 [ECM FOR T34/84 IS +1 FOR A COST OF 4] WEAPONRY: MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 4; COST: 31 MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 4; COST: 31 MAIN GUN; RNG 32; H/S (+4/+1); POWER: 4; COST: 25 BREEDER: TARGET: ECM: TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: TRACKED ROLE: TANK COST: 164 POINTS [160 FOR T34/85] [Notes: The T-34/85 was one of the most successful Soviet tanks of WW2 and has seen action as recently as the breakup of the former Yugoslavia. The French Napoleon and the West German Leopard were important tanks for the rise of NATO's military might in the 1950s and 1960s.] T-54/55 3 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 12. POWER: 4. COST: 21 ACA: +1. COST: 1 DCA: +4. COST: 2 ARM: +3. COST: 14 PW: 16. COST: 24 TL: +1. COST: 6 ECM: +3. COST: 9 WEAPONRY: MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 4; COST: 31 MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 4; COST: 31 MAIN GUN; RNG 32; H/S (+4/+1); POWER: 4; COST: 25 BREEDER: TARGET: ECM: TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: TRACKED ROLE: TANK COST: 164 POINTS [Notes: The T-54 and T-55 were the Soviet Union's first post-WW2 tank designs, improving upon the strengths of the T-34/85 with know-how learned from captured German tanks. Both types saw extensive action in the Middle East, Vietnam and Eastern Europe--and the T-54 became the guide for Red China's foray into tank design. Some have had their main guns upgraded in recent years, to improve their range capability.] PANTHER 4 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 10. POWER: 4. COST: 21 ACA: +1. COST: 1 DCA: +3. COST: 2 ARM: +2. COST: 14 PW: 16. COST: 29 TL: +1. COST: 6 ECM: +1. COST: 4 WEAPONRY: MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 4; COST: 41 MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 4; COST: 41 MAIN GUN; RNG 24; H/S (+3/+1); POWER: 4; COST: 24 BREEDER: TARGET: ECM: TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: TRACKED ROLE: TANK COST: 183 POINTS [Notes: The Panther was a German design, first seeing action on the Russian and North African fronts during WW2.] KING TIGER 4 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 6. POWER: 4. COST: 12 ACA: +1. COST: 1 DCA: +3. COST: 2 ARM: +3. COST: 18 PW: 16. COST: 29 TL: +1. COST: 6 ECM: +1. COST: 14 WEAPONRY: MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 4; COST: 41 MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 4; COST: 41 MAIN GUN; RNG 24; H/S (+4/+1); POWER: 4; COST: 33 BREEDER: TARGET: ECM: TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: TRACKED ROLE: TANK COST: 197 POINTS [Note: The ultimate German heavy tank to see action in WW2, the King Tiger was too late to change the tide of the war but still caused much grief to the Allies.] CENTURION / CHIEFTAIN / T10 STALIN III 4 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 10. POWER: 4. COST: 21 ACA: +1. COST: 1 DCA: +4. COST: 4 ARM: +3. COST: 18 PW: 16. COST: 29 TL: +3. COST: 18 [CHIEFTAIN HAS TL OF +4 FOR A COST OF 21] ECM: +3. COST: 11 WEAPONRY: MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 4; COST: 41 MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 4; COST: 41 MAIN GUN; RNG 32; H/S (+4/+1); POWER: 4; COST: 35 BREEDER: TARGET: ECM: TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: TRACKED ROLE: TANK COST: 219 POINTS [ 222 FOR CHIEFTAIN] [Notes: Centurion was Great Britain's first post-WW2 tank, just too late to be used in the war. The Israelis used great numbers of Centurions in the 1967 and 1973 Middle East wars. The Stalin III was the final version of the Soviet Army's main heavy tank of WW2, and was important in the Soviet Army until the early 1960s. The Chieftain was the British Army's follow-on to the Centurion, developed in the late 1960s.] M48/M60 PATTON 4 DAMAGE TRACKS MM: 16. POWER: 4. COST: 31 ACA: +1. COST: 1 DCA: +4. COST: 3 ARM: +3. COST: 18 PW: 16. COST: 29 TL: +4. COST: 21 ECM: +3. COST: 11 WEAPONRY: MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 4; COST: 41 MACHINE GUN; RNG 18; H/S (+1/+6); POWER: 4; COST: 41 MAIN GUN; RNG 32; H/S (+4/+1); POWER: 4; COST: 35 [NOTE: OPTIONAL MAIN GUN UPGRADES: MAIN GUN; RNG 48; H/S (+4/+2); POWER: 4; COST: 50 or DF SHILLELAGH LAUNCHER; RNG 48; H/S (+5/+2); POWER: 2; COST: 65] BREEDER: TARGET: ECM: TARGET TYPE: HARD MOVE TYPE: TRACKED ROLE: TANK COST: 231 POINTS [246 WITH UPGRADED MAIN GUN; 261 WITH SHILLELAGH] [Notes: The American Patton was the post-WW2 development of the wartime Pershing heavy tank, which saw some action in Europe in 1945. Pattons saw action in Korea, Vietnam, the Middle East and Desert Storm and some are still serving in Army units today.] * * * RONIN TO CAV I bought a starter set of Ronin Duels and have been going over the information in it and what I've been finding about Ronin Duels/Ronin Wars on the web. I don't have enough information to make a full port, but what I do have should interest players. The Ronin game is a 1/300 scale mecha combat game featuring a huge variety of weapons and equipment parts for the titular robots, which are 18-meter tall war machines in the vein of the Mortar Headds of "Five Star Stories". In fact, the game itself seems to be a fusion of features from Battletech, Epic Scale Warhammer 40K, and Legends of the Five Rings! There are nearly 70 different weapons available to Ronin mecha, 15 of them melee-range assault weapons. There are also several different kinds of missiles and many unique pieces of equipment. I'm not going to tackle the huge catalog right away, but will share what I've learned so far. The Ronin themselves are too large to count as CAVs (yet). In the Ronin game, they have a capacity of 9 critical hits before shutdown, which would translate into CAV as 10 damage tracks. However, in Ronin Wars, there are smaller mecha called Raiders (Templars for one faction and Ashigaru for another) which only take 3 crits before shutdown, or 4 damage tracks in CAV. The Raiders can use many of the weapons the Ronin use, so a porting is worthwhile for them at least. (Ronin uses a 1D6/2D6 based game mechanic as opposed to CAV's 1D10 system, so that set the modifiers. The movement and range conversions were set to fit CAV's existing envelopes.) RONIN TO CAV CONVERSION NOTES MOVEMENT (cm * 1.2, rounded to nearest even number): 4 cm -> 6 hexes/inches 5 cm -> 6 h/" 6 cm -> 8 h/" 8 cm -> 10 h/" 10 cm -> 12 h/" 12 cm -> 14 h/" 18 cm -> 22 h/" 20 cm -> 24 h/" 24 cm -> 28 h/" 32 cm -> 38 h/" 36 cm -> 42 h/" 40 cm -> 48 h/" WEAPON RANGES (subtract 8 cm, then convert direct to hexes/inches, rounded to nearest CAV range increment): 16 cm -> 12 hexes/inches 24 cm -> 18 h/" 32 cm -> 24 h/" 40 cm -> 32 h/" 44 cm -> 36 h/" 48 cm -> 40 h/" 54 or 56 cm -> 48 h/" 68+ cm -> 60 h/" WEAPON DAMAGE (* 1 2/3rds, rounded to nearest whole number): +0 -> +0 +1 -> +2 +2 -> +3 1D3 -> +4 +3 -> +5 +4 (1D6) -> +7 +5 (2D3) -> +8 +6 (1D6 +1) -> +10 HIT MODIFIER -> TARGET LOCK [for ranged weaponry] or ACA [for assault/melee weapons only] (* 5/6ths, rounded to nearest whole number): -4 -> -3 -3 or -2 -> -2 -1 -> -1 +0 -> +0 +1 -> +1 +2 or +3 -> +2 +4 -> +3 +5 -> +4 +6 -> +5 * * * STARSIEGE REBELLION TO CAV First impressions: Rebellion is an interesting stepping-stone between (Classic) Battletech and CAV, with little bits and pieces that kinda look like MWDA and Mecha! (the Seventh Street/Flagship Games title). A Rebellion -> CAV port seemed to be tantalizingly easy--up to a point. Rebellion (and Mecha!) has a technology that defies a direct port: energy shielding. All Rebellion HERCs have shield generators and some even have augmented shielding. Making a CAV-legal shielding rules system is something I don't really want to try, in light of the uproar that came from my CBT/MWDA debacle. Call it Psyro tech and then have it fall into some UCOR's hands someday? The Rebellion miniatures (and you can still find some around in places--Agents of Gaming has a blowout sale on them at their website now too) are roughly 1/200 scale, which makes them likely for CAV. What is there (HERCs): Imperial Talon scout HERC--2 DTs, MM 26. Rebel Emancipator converted mining HERC--3 DTs, MM 12. Imperial Minotaur medium HERC--4 DTs, MM 20. Imperial Basilisk heavy HERC--5 DTs, MM 16. Imperial Gorgon assault HERC--6 DTs, MM 8. Cybrid Seeker scout HERC--3 DTs, MM 22. Cybrid Goad light HERC--3 DTs, MM 20. Cybrid Shepherd medium HERC--4 DTs, MM 16. Cybrid Adjucator heavy HERC--5 DTs, MM 12. Cybrid Executioner assault HERC--5 DTs, MM 8. (The low DT count is offset by the shielding, which absorbs damage first.) Porting the weaponry is a headache. Even though the power stats are in the same limits as CAV, and setting ranges isn't hard (nearest increment to Medium Range in Rebellion), the JoR envelopes are too tight to allow most of the armaments. Either the power requirements are too low (Autocannons) or too high (all the energy weapons). Then there are those special weapons that the Rebellion writers forgot to include power stats for (like the wonderful Cybrid Radiation Gun, designed to fry enemy crews inside their mecha). The problem is that Rebellion uses a totally different to-hit and damage resolution system and while it shares some similarities to CAV, there's still a wide gulf to cross. STARSIEGE REBELLION ARMAMENTS FOR CAV The following weapons have not been playtested. Firepower stats were derived by adding the two Penetration stats together, then taking the square root and subtracting one, rounding the result to the nearest whole number. (Yes, this is setting the weapons to roughly the same scale as the Heavy Gear sample.) I used standard degradation tables from the Journal of Recognition for most of the stats; Hard/Soft stats are settings at the Zero column of the Damage Track chart.. The power stats are from the Rebellion game, not CAV. MISSILE WEAPONRY Thermal Missile (IF, 3-pack): 2 DT; RNG 40; H/S (+3/+3); AOE 1; POWER 2; COST 42. Thermal Missile (IF, 6-pack): 3 DT; RNG 40; H/S (+3/+3); AOE 1; POWER 2; COST 53. Thermal Missile (IF, 9-pack): 5 DT; RNG 40; H/S (+3/+3); AOE 1; POWER 2; COST 74. (These are infrared-guided missiles, whose Target Locks can be defeated by flares or Thermal Diffusers.) Radar Missile (IF, 3-pack): 2 DT; RNG 60; H/S (+3/+3); AOE 1; POWER 2; COST 49. Radar Missile (IF, 6-pack): 3 DT; RNG 60; H/S (+3/+3); AOE 1; POWER 2; COST 60. Radar Missile (IF, 9-pack): 5 DT; RNG 60; H/S (+3/+3); AOE 1; POWER 2; COST 81. (Radar-guided missiles, which can be jammed by ECM.) Optical Missile (IF, 3-pack): 2 DT; RNG 60; H/S (+3/+3); AOE 1; POWER 2; COST 49. Optical Missile (IF, 6-pack): 3 DT; RNG 60; H/S (+3/+3); AOE 1; POWER 2; COST 60. Optical Missile (IF, 9-pack): 5 DT; RNG 60; H/S (+3/+3); AOE 1; POWER 2; COST 81. (Television-equipped missiles that are controlled by the WSO in flight. Can be countered by smoke or cloaking units.) SWARM Missiles (DF, 15-pack): 2 DT; RNG 32; H/S (+5/+3); POWER 4; COST 44. SWARM Missiles (DF, 30-pack): 3 DT; RNG 32; H/S (+5/+3); POWER 4; COST 58. SWARM Missiles (DF, 45-pack): 5 DT; RNG 32; H/S (+5/+3); POWER 4; COST 87. (These are launched in volleys of five missiles, which attack their targets from all sides at once. Can also be jammed by ECM, but at a higher degree of difficulty.) THERMAL WEAPONRY Thermal Lance: 3 DT; RNG 18; H/S (+4/+8); POWER 6; COST 59. (Consider this weapon to be a bigger and more advanced flamethrower, designed to overwhelm energy shielding and melt down armor plating. I know it is illegal to build a flamer this big under CAV rules but it can just as easily be thought of as two flamers twin-linked to fit into one weapons mount!) BALLISTIC GUN WEAPONRY Standard Autocannon: 2 DT; RNG 24; H/S (+1/+0); POWER 1; COST 1. Heavy Autocannon: 4 DT; RNG 36; H/S (+2/+1); POWER 1; COST 23. Rail Gun: 6 DT; RNG 40; H/S (+6/+2); POWER 4; COST 85. Siege Cannon: 3 DT; RNG 60; H/S (+5/+1); AOE 3; POWER 6; COST 59. (The Siege Cannon is a strictly Indirect-Fire weapon that can only be mounted in Armored Vehicles and Quad-Legged CAVs.) Blast Cannon: 4 DT; RNG 40; H/S (+2/+2); AOE 1; POWER 3; COST 37. (The Blast Cannon can be Indirect-Fired.) Heavy Blast Cannon: 4 DT: RNG 60; H/S (+7/+2); AOE 2; POWER 5; COST 87. (The Heavy Blast Cannon can be Indirect-Fired.) ElectroMag Autocannon: 2 DT; RNG 18; H/S (+2/+0); POWER 2; COST 5. Smart Gun: 3 DT; RNG 32; H/S (+2/+0); POWER 2; COST 12. (The Smart Gun uses laser-guided shells that get an accuracy bonus under Rebellion rules.) ENERGY GUN WEAPONRY Standard Laser: 2 DT; RNG 40; H/S (+2/+0); POWER 2; COST 17. Heavy Laser: 3DT; RNG 32; H/S (+3/+3); POWER 5; COST 32. ElectroMag Pulse Cannon: 5 DT; RNG 24; H/S (+3/+3); POWER 7; COST 42. Compression Laser: 5DT; RNG 36; H/S (+3/+3); POWER 5; COST 49. ElectroMag Pulse Mortar: 6 DT; RNG 48; H/S (+4/+3); AOE 1; POWER 7; COST 76. (The Pulse Mortar is strictly an Indirect-Fire weapon.) Twin Laser: 3 DT; RNG 32; H/S (+2/+2); POWER 5; COST 21. Particle Beam Cannon: 4 DT; RNG 18; H/S (+4/+3); POWER 6; COST 43. Plasma Cannon: 4 DT; RNG 18; H/S (+4/+3); AOE 1; POWER 7; COST 47. Particle Blaster: 5 DT; RNG 32; H/S (+4/+3); POWER 5; COST 57. Heavy Particle Blaster: 5 DT; RNG 18; H/S (+5/+4); POWER 8; COST 69. Blink Gun: 3 DT; RNG 32; H/S (+1/+1); POWER 5; COST 12. MagnetoFusion Assault Cannon: 6 DT; RNG 24; H/S (+5/+4); AOE 3; POWER 10; COST 91. Quantum Gun: 6 DT; RNG 18; H/S (+3/+3); POWER 9; COST 44. Electron Flux Whip: 3 DT; RNG 18; H/S (+4/+3); POWER 7; COST 36. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Super Jag 5 Posted April 11, 2004 Report Share Posted April 11, 2004 Well, no doubt you've put some thought into this but I just don't have the time or desire to read the entire lengthy novel. What was it you were trying to tell us? Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ecs05norway 336 Posted April 11, 2004 Report Share Posted April 11, 2004 I like most of what you have for the Battletech conversions, but I think you mis-estimate some things. The BT timeline is considerably longer, and while there is a period of destabilization and technology loss, it's not that great, and it's been recovered from and built to even greater heights. One of the best-written explanations for the technical oddities described in the BT rules set was the armor itself, being so revolutionary that it required a whole new generation of weapons to affect it. For various reasons, though, I think a conversion of spirit is more interesting (and certainly more interesting when pitting BT units against CAVs) than the exactitude you've presented. As far as I can tell from my reading of the rules, CAV abstracts close-in defense weapons into the Close-Combat Ratings, so things like machine guns and small lasers would disappear into that. Weapon groupings would be mostly as you've set them up... weapon statistics... hmmm.... (I really should get a copy of JoR before I start on this...) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FPilot 0 Posted April 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2004 I like most of what you have for the Battletech conversions, but I think you mis-estimate some things. The BT timeline is considerably longer, and while there is a period of destabilization and technology loss, it's not that great, and it's been recovered from and built to even greater heights. But at the same "time", there are no "alien races" in Battletech's galaxy--no cross-pollenation of technologies as there is in the CAV galaxy. Way back in the 1980s, I calculated that the powerplants in Battlemechs had the same output/weight ratio as World War Two airplane piston engines like the R-R Merlin and the P&W R-2800. Let's just say that I have very little faith in the "advanced" technology that Battletech is supposed to possess. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ecs05norway 336 Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 I like most of what you have for the Battletech conversions, but I think you mis-estimate some things. The BT timeline is considerably longer, and while there is a period of destabilization and technology loss, it's not that great, and it's been recovered from and built to even greater heights. But at the same "time", there are no "alien races" in Battletech's galaxy--no cross-pollenation of technologies as there is in the CAV galaxy. Way back in the 1980s, I calculated that the powerplants in Battlemechs had the same output/weight ratio as World War Two airplane piston engines like the R-R Merlin and the P&W R-2800. Let's just say that I have very little faith in the "advanced" technology that Battletech is supposed to possess. And between that and the ranges, I see absolutely no point in even trying to be literal when it comes to translating Battletech into other game systems. If I wanted to be literal, I'd just play Battletech. So I concentrate on roles. An Atlas, for example, would come out similar to a Rhino in general characteristics - a ponderous, slow, heavily-armored and armed behemoth. A Locust would be a light, fast - say 3 DT, 20+ move - scout unit. Etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FPilot 0 Posted April 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 A Locust would be a light, fast - say 3 DT, 20+ move - scout unit. In my Unseen list above, the Locust has 2DT and a movement of 24". In the meantime, I've acquired two MWDA Locusts. Perhaps I'll restat those and come back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lars Porsenna 3509 Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 The only criticism that jumps out at me is the way you have the breakdown for pilot classifications WRT the Mechwarrior skill levels. The GVEU system used by MW is meaningless when compared to different figures; it only has meaning when comparing like figures (FREX peasant companies) or for collectors. A better system would be to compare the targetting stat on the dial. Damon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ecs05norway 336 Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 For that matter, looking at the stat on the dial for MW figures is pointless in the extreme. Consider, for example: The DI Schmitt tank, armed with twin RAC-5, four heavy missile racks, and several lighter weapons, deals... 5 Armor-Piercing damage. The Legionnaire battlemech, armed with a single RAC-5 and no other weapons, deals... 5 Armor-Piercing damage. The MWDA dial is an amalgam of actual capabilities, the pilot/crew's "style", and several other factors. It is entirely pointless as a guide for actually deducing anything about the unit's performance outside the extremely-abstract environment of the MWDA game. CAV has its abstraction levels, but they're at a much lower and more interesting level. As for Battletech weapons being lighter than CAV weapons, I must disagree with this generalism. Yes, the listed stats show a lighter weight, but this neglects that the Battlemech must also account for the weapon's heat dissipation. A Medium Laser, for example, may be only one ton, but it requires three tons of heat sinks to keep it going, for a "practical" mass of four tons. This is already included in the masses of CAV weapons, since CAV has no such limitation on the use of weapons. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FPilot 0 Posted April 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Whereas CAV weapons all need a power source and that must be accounted for too. And then there are ammo loads, about which CAV (and MWDA) has attempted to drop the subject. I'm trying to keep the issues simple and understandable. Be glad I'm not trying to port Mobile Suit Gundam (yet), even though all those MSiA figures available at Target, Toys R Us and Wal-Mart are to scale to CAV! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ecs05norway 336 Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Whereas CAV weapons all need a power source and that must be accounted for too. And then there are ammo loads, about which CAV (and MWDA) has attempted to drop the subject. I'm trying to keep the issues simple and understandable. Be glad I'm not trying to port Mobile Suit Gundam (yet), even though all those MSiA figures available at Target, Toys R Us and Wal-Mart are to scale to CAV! Yes, and BattleMechs need a reactor, too, which accounts for a large percentage of a mech's weight, depending on the technology level and speed desired. How much of, say, a Rhino's weight does its reactor take up? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FPilot 0 Posted April 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Yes, and BattleMechs need a reactor, too, which accounts for a large percentage of a mech's weight, depending on the technology level and speed desired. How much of, say, a Rhino's weight does its reactor take up? If you consider the Point Cost a measure partly of mass, then a Rhino's reactor is roughly 13%. By my estimate, about 14 tons or so. As opposed to 22.5 tons for a Battletech engine of the same power capacity. Of course, I know that point costs do not correspond to mass. Otherwise it gives all new meaning to the term "heavy infantry". TROOPER: (Chomp...chew...swallow.) Many people say (chomp...chew) that the Bellar joint (swallow...chomp...chew...) was the most important advance in Warfare. (Swallow...chomp...chew...swallow.) I disagree. It's the quad-burger MRE. (*Burp*) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ecs05norway 336 Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 *chuckle* If you're not going to cross-over the two universes, there's no real point in arguing over it. ;) If you are, and people inevitably will, it's better not to leave a controversy. So what I plan to do is just go ahead and build CAVs that mirror the performance of the Battlemechs. Using the corresponding weapons systems, etc. (As soon as I actually -get- JoR, that is, which should be fairly soon. Probably next weekend.) Another note -- CAVs use Breeder reactors - i.e., fission. Battlemechs use Fusion, if a somewhat crude variety thereof. Who has the higher tech there? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Erion 4 Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Please, for the love of everything holy, do not try to make this a "My Mecha can kick your Mecha's butt" thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FPilot 0 Posted April 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Please, for the love of everything holy, do not try to make this a "My Mecha can kick your Mecha's butt" thread. I don't have Mekton Zetaplus, so I can't exactly go there. Some mecha games allow energy shielding, which neither Battletech nor CAV can counter. As for powerplants, the actual method of energy generation means little other than fluff. So far, the maximum hardware limits mean that nobody can build hulking superpowerful mecha, like those in "superhero robot" anime like Go Nagai stuff or Evangelion or Gunbuster. These can be built in other systems, but not ported into CAV or Battletech. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ecs05norway 336 Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Yeah, Mekton Zeta Plus is pretty much the 'Swiss Army Knife' of mecha gaming. I could build a battlemech, a CAV, and an Evangelion in it, and pit them against one another. But I won't, because there's no point to it. I just want to be able to play out a Battletech game without either a) using the rather messily broken MWDA system or b) spending eight-twenty hours on it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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