Rumour: Nokia to be split?
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[quote author="Andre" date="1334299179"]
[quote author="Jayakrishnan.M" date="1334287520"]The following is taken from the link.' Speaking on a conference call yesterday, Elop, a former Microsoft executive who took the helm at Nokia in September 2010, said the Finnish company may prioritize certain devices and markets at the expense of others. '
This simply means to promote WP at the expense of others.[/quote]
There is no foundation for your conclusion, I think. At least, I don't see any.[/quote]
But then what is the meaning of Elop's comments. WP is already number 1 priority for Nokia. But what does 'prioritize certain devices and markets at expense of others ' really mean ? I like to be wrong here hope that Meltemi get atleast some importance.
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Adnaan Ahmad again. Well, enough said.
If you want a serious analysis of the situation of Nokia speak to the "organ grinder":http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/, not to the monkey.
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So the sollution is to fire Elop (out of a cannon and into the sun preferably ;) )
bq. He announced he will end Symbian (and shortly thereafter, the Ovi store too) and that he will not proceed to the promised migration path of MeeGo, the Linux based future smartphone OS, and that the migration path, via the Nokia Qt development tool was ended. And that it would be replaced by Microsoft's Windows Phone
bq. Elop killed the Qt migration path. But Nokia still owns Qt and keeps developing it with tiny budget and slowly. If Nokia's CEO or Chairman were to say the end of Qt was a mistake, and were to apologize in public to all developers, and to announce Qt will be fully funded and developed rapidly, to support Nokia Symbian, Nokia S40, Nokia MeeGo, Nokia Maemo, Nokia Meltemi - and Android and Blackberry (And bada, Limo and Tizen) - this would show that Symbian is not 'dead'.
Official Android support sounds about as naive as my own dead hopes for a contemporary C++ GUI front end. Unofficially, it doesn't seem like Necessitas moved even an inch the last few months, it "works" but there are so many features missing or broken, many of which essential to mobile development.
I played with an iPad3 yesterday and as much as I despise Apple I have to give them the credit for sustaining an amazingly good platform API, in this regard Google with their billions of dollars are doing a lousy job with Android to say the least, not to mention what Nokia does. Google should be grateful to companies like Nokia, excellent at doing the wrong decisions and clear all that market share for an easy taking over, for any semi-decent Android alternative would be better, Android sucks in so many ways it just speaks a lot about how pathetic the industry is considering as bad as Android is there is nothing to compete with it. Dalvik and "Java" (not really but still close enough) orientation for a mobile platform, limited in terms of memory capacity and processing power - that was a very bad idea, I've always been looking down on iDiots with their bragging how smoother iOS is, but it is, as bad as Apple is at least they keep it native, and don't enforce inferior technologies on their developer base like some other * cough * companies. Not that I am in favor of Objetive-C, it is one of the UGLIEST WAYS to enhance C, if not THE UGLIEST, but I don't think anyone ever expected Apple to NOT push proprietary standards. But at least it is native, not some VM or interpreter based solution.
I cannot shake the feeling if Nokia didn't buy Qt, the framework would have been in a much better shape today - still dedicated to C++ and without restrictions to target "competitor platforms" such as Android and iOS?
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If Meltemi and the new BB10 phones become popular it would give Qt a big push on Mobile. Seems Qt's mobile future depends on these. This may also increase the interest in Necessitas. Only 2-3 people are working on Necessitas at present.
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Note that there is also work in progress to use Qt on BlackBerry OSs. The code is already in the main repo, and I just spotted a job add for developers wanting to work on it.
But yes, I know BB is having a difficult time as well...
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Amaizingly fast spreading bad rumors about Nokia reminds me something:
[quote author="Douglas Adams" date="1334286019"]
“Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws."
[/quote]:)
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Sorry, but the market statistics is not a rumor!
We can make joke about this, but at the and we will be very sad...
As I see the fresh Qt download site: Symbian and Meego is THE mobile features. Yeah! Symbian is at 1%, Meego (N9) is unvisible! (BlackBerry, who are they? iOS has an own dev env, Android has an own dev env.) Nokia put all of the "force" on the WP7 line.
I can't see the Qt's future in this segment of the market...
I hope that the Qt will be purchased by Intel (or something similar). Where Qt could be better: a cross/multi platform desktop C++ framework.
What we really need is, a really good cross/multi platform (of course: ANSI/ISO standard) C++ framework! -
bq. a cross/multi platform desktop C++ framework
Isn't this what Qt has already been for about two decades now? Mobile is the new kid on the block with Qt.
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[quote author="broadpeak" date="1334328074"]Sorry, but the market statistics is not a rumor!
[/quote]No, though it would help a lot to understand what the figures you show actually mean. Just showing percentages isn't helpful.
What is rumour though, is the idea that Nokia's issues would lead to some sort of split, and that that would be bad for Qt. That is something that you cannot determine from the list of percentages you give, even if you would know what those percentages would mean.
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bq. I hope that the Qt will be purchased by Intel
Now that would have been great, although Intel is so mighty they could easily develop a software development framework from scratch. I've sort of always wondered why they haven't done that already, they do have many amazingly powerful development tools, but not a complete solution.
bq. ...and that that would be bad for Qt
<sarcasm> We all know Nokia is the best thing that ever happened to Qt, equal only to the introduction of QML, which we all know had nothing to do with Nokia. </sarcasm>
There is however a number of ways Nokia's woes can affect Qt, as the controller and funder of most of the development force behind Qt, being strapped for cash can have multiple negative effects like reduced research and development, reduction of workforce and so on.As nice as it would be to sell Qt to someone else, I don't see that happening, as Nokia would probably have a hard time selling it at at the price they bought it, and the amount of money Qt could be easily sold for is not all that much to make a difference, so I don't really see Nokia letting go off Qt, they bought it when Nokia was in its peak value and could afford to spend a preposterous amount of money on Qt, more than enough to build... like several software SDKs from scratch.
Nokia bought Trolltech in an attempt to counter the momentum of iOS and the looming on the horizon Android, and in 2008 they held like 60% of the mobile market, which could potentially have resulted in great success, but somewhere along the way their plan did not work. The little market Nokia has left is all betting on windows mobile, with MS development tools being the development environment of choice, Symbian is a done deal, BlackBerry is slowly and surely dying, there is no indication of Android or iOS being officially supported, and the little community work done by volunteers isn't going anywhere, leaving Qt, purchased with the intent of extending it into the booming mobile market stranded back where it used to be 5 years ago - desktops, with the majority of development efforts focused on QML which itself tailored as a mobile app development tool.
All in all, the situation of today is the result of a long series of missteps, there doesn't seem to be possible for Nokia to have played their cards any worse, and being under the control of such a poor decision maker has its inevitable effects. Nokia has given a direction for Qt that IMO is far from optimal, and that was to be expected.
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Before Feb 11, 2011, Qt was the framework for targeting the OS with most market share, Symbian. And with Meego on horizon, Qt on mobile had promising future. But all that is gone. Qt on mobile has become the framework for a collection on dead / struggling platforms (Symbian, Meego, BB). Android and iOS ports are not official. We don't know if they would be successful in the end. I'am hoping that they would really come off. I'am hoping that Meltemi and BB10 becomes hugely popular. That would give Qt on Mobile a big thrust.
I don't think direction of Qt under Nokia is wrong. Nokia has given us Qt mobility, lgpl and Qml is a good addition as a means for good UI, then c++11 in Qt 5.0. So far good.
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I wouldn't hold my breath over Meltemi - the motivation behind it is WP7 is too heavy for Nokia's cheap low end phones, and I don't think all the QML induced overhead will stack with low end phones all that nicely, with their slow processors, low memory and tiny displays.
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Wrong. Due to beeing fully hardware accelerated Qt Quick will run way smoother on such devices.
Windows Phone 7s problem is not (only) the lower-end range, but rather the higher-end range (not supporting high resolution displays and cameras, not supporting multiple camera interfaces, not supporting multi-core CPUs, not supporting memory cards, ...).
You are not competitive in terms of features in the high-end market, you are not competitive in terms of price in the low-end market and you have to heavily subsidize in the mid-range market (free XBox, trading for Symbian, ...) to be actually competitive.
Just compare the PureView or the N9 to the Lumia series. And at the end of the day one is astonsihed that the latter devices do not sell and your smartphone division is generating huge loss on a constant basis.
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Oh yes, I have no doubt Qt Quick runs on a hardware accelerated interpreter and JS engine. Just as much as I have no doubt this is a Qt Quick exclusive feature and WP7 takes no advantage of hardware acceleration whatsoever, making it infinitely worse than Qt Quick.
One thing is sure thou - those tiny, low resolution displays will provide a breath-taking, jaw-dropping hardware accelerated QML experience.
Nokia managed to drive Symbian from a market leader to non-existent, and Maemo couldn't even make it to the market in a significant volume, we have every reason to believe in the imminent success of Meltemi.
After all that irony, it would seem that your affiliations continue to cloud your objectivity. But it is understandable, the ONE THING I don't understand is why no body is banning me from this forum? After all your beloved Nokia has censored out my blog comments...
Got to love the hypocrisy, playing it all liberal here in the forum while communism is raging at the LABS and BLOG comment area.
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Being critical or being misguided is no reason for banning on this forum. Nothing in the "TOS":http://en.gitorious.org/tos/ would justify that. What happens on other blogs, forums (operated by Nokia or not) is not the responsibilty of anyone here.
Note that Lukas is, AFAIK, not affiliated with Nokia other than being another developer working with Qt. The people on this forum who are, are recognizable by a green Troll badge under their name.
Having said all that: I guess everyone gets your point that you think that Nokia's management is bad and untrustworthy, that Qt is heading in the wrong direction and that QML is a misguided attempt to push a propriatory technology that doesn't hold a candle to using C++, or something along those lines. Fine. You are entitled to that opinion. Now, if you don't mind, shall we go back to our work? Perhaps you could spend the energy that you put in writing all those long posts here into something more productive? You could start research into creating a C++ API for the features like Scenegraph that you seem to like, or perhaps you could search for alternatives outside of Qt if you don't think it suits your purposes anymore?
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[quote author="temp" date="1334648968"]I don't understand is why no body is banning me from this forum?[/quote]
"A fool's mouth is his undoing."
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#offtopic, deterred by those last two personal posts
[quote author="Lukas Geyer" date="1334650758"]
"A fool's mouth is his undoing."[/quote]
So insults are allowed in quotation form?
@Andre - I've been looking into many alternatives the last week, and my involvement in this place is all about ending it in a natural way, just like a car doesn't stop in an instant (unless you crash into a wall) my momentum needs to wear out, and I feel obligated to do anything in my power to sway Qt in the right direction, as my suspicions the push of QML has nothing to do with technical necessities but corporate politics get more and more confirmation. Don't get that concerned with my long posts - I am quick at typing, and the time "wasted" on expressing my opinion is, at least IMO quite a better investment than the time I truly wasted, spent on learning and promoting Qt with the false idea it will remain dedicated to native C++ programming.
bq. What happens on other blogs, forums (operated by Nokia or not) is not the responsibilty of anyone here.
So it is just an amazing coincidence all my censored comments suddenly popped out, coincidentally after that last forum post, surely it was that "anyone here" who is not responsible and who didn't read my post and got embarrassed or told to un-censor comments from my IP? Here is a news-flash - I am not as stupid as you appear to perceive me to be, and I wasn't born yesterday.
And if my rant can make my censored posts get uncensored, then it must work, so if it can, directly or indirectly contribute to returning development attention back towards native APIs, even a tint bit - then it is time well spent. I am not even pushing to deter Qt from developing QML, just to leave developers the choice not to use it without having to give up on every major contribution to Qt done after the acquisitions.
And it is not like I am pulling your hair to get you off your work - My my crusade against Qt's management is a product of my own will, just as your crusade to defend it is a product of your own will, so feel free to get back to your work at any time.
MODs: Feel free to move the last three posts, this one included, to that other thread, since none of those regard Nokia.
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Nokia tried a lot of development platforms in the recent years:
Symbian C++ (CodeWarrior) for Symbian OS
Symbian C++ (Carbide.c++/Eclipse) for Symbian OS
GTK+ for Maemo
Qt for Meego
Visual C++ (only for OEMs) for WP7
No one was/is really successful (in the last 1-2 years). Nokia try/tried to jump from one to other. This can confuse the developers (and the consumers too)! I don't like to learn completely different development environments year by year.
I think that the most successful would have been the Meego/N9 line.
The N9 was/is a really good phone. But because the selling dates are not so good (because of Nokia's bad marketing decisions), this line will be disappear.
I can't see the future of Qt... -
[quote author="temp" date="1334667951"]
MODs: Feel free to move the last three posts, this one included, to that other thread, since none of those regard Nokia.[/quote]Which other thread?
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[quote author="Volker" date="1334678549"]
Which other thread?[/quote]