Qt5: Javascript vs C++?
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serkol: I hope you did not get such a response from a troll!
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No, it was not from a TROLL, neither from a troll :-)
This was before I looked at Qt. I hang out in that tool's forum for a couple of months. It's not a specific response, but their general attitude. They always sounded bothered when someone asked for a bug fix or a feature in some area that was not interesting for them. And they always gave the same response - you have the source code, do this yourself. Sometimes their response was more polite, sometimes less, but always the same meaning.
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Well, you do have the option to stop whining and get a commercial Qt contract from Digia, or pay any of the Qt support-offering companies to maintain the parts of Qt that are critical for you. I really wonder why you ask Nokia to invest in supporting technology they have less interest in. Nokia's stake is obviously in selling huge numbers of phones and perhaps other gadgets. That requires technolgies like QML, not widgets. Meantime, they are giving away a great toolkit that helps us all and provides many of us a decent income. I'm not complaining here.
Personally, I think that Digia will need to step up in the qt project. They are starting to, but I think they are the ones who should take up maintainership of Qt Widgets.
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[quote author="Andre" date="1329163835"]Well, you do have the option to stop whining and get a commercial Qt contract from Digia
[/quote]This is exactly what I want to do, when/if they resolve the incompatibility with Mac App Store and Mac OS sandboxing, and if the price is reasonable. I haven't even asked them about the price yet, because they have promised to resolve the App Store and sandboxing issues, but they have not done this yet.
[quote author="Andre" date="1329163835"]stop whining[/quote]
I immediately recognize the language from that tool's user group. Are you involved into a open-source project by chance?
[quote author="Andre" date="1329163835"]I really wonder why you ask Nokia[/quote]
Who is talking about Nokia? I have shared my experience with some open-source project that is not related to Nokia. Did you read my post at all?
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The 'you' was not meant personally. It was more aimed at Volker than you, to be honest. There is much talk of 'it is not the task of the users to do this', but who's responsibility is it exactly, and why?
Seriously. We have been given an awesome toolkit that we can use. And topics like this give the feeling that users still think that it is never enough. I understand that Nokia is focussing on the parts that are most interesting to their business. There are other stepping to the plate to take up part of the work (and I know, Volker actually is one of those, in the sense of the work he does here in the community; don't underestimate the importance of that role). But so far, it is not enough yet. Let's give it a chance to grow though. It is a big transition.
Digia may or may not be able and willing to meet your (serkol) requirements for you to take a licence. I also don't know what you think is a reasonable price. I don't think Digia's position is easy either: they are trying to sell a license on a product that offers little benefit now over using the open source version. At the same time, we as a community will in the long run need to have paying customers to allow for development in areas that the individual developers using Qt will not be able to maintain themselves (like Qt Widgets). That is quite a catch 22.
And yes, I am involved with an open source project. Years ago, I used to run one. And even in that time, I did have to deal with users demanding features and fixes, but not willing to contribute themselves. Nowadays I am involved - mostly on the community side - of a small project you might have heard of: Qt. I am not a Troll though, and I do in no way speak for the project.
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I'm quite ok with the situation right now. For the commercial project there's a commercial license available from Digia. and long before from Trolltech and Nokia. From that point of view I can sit back and relax. Hopefully Digia will fill the gap that might come up.
From Nokia's point of view, the current direction of development makes pretty good sense. But I, as well as many other developers, having paid for a commercial license or not, have to care of my/our own business. The commitment to using Qt is an invest itself. You spend time on the code base, etc. The question if that was a good decision in the end or not is answered later and depends on wether the trust a developer has put into the framework and its "manufacturer" amongst other facts. That trust is not too big, if one recaps the past two to three years. One was always asking what benefit does see in acquiring Qt/Trolltech. Then they announced that it will be the platform for their future phones and that Nokia will stand committed to Qt. That was quite ok, developers calmed down. Then there was the 2011 Feb-11 announcement. We all remember how we felt at that sad day. Giving Qt out to the community was a logical step, of course. But it was nothing that brought back too much trust into the intents of Nokia. It's still unclear what their role will be in the future (what will be the next billion devices?) It's an down and up and down and up.
Then look back at the past Developer Days. There was much moaning about the strong focus on mobile development and less and less desktop topics. Again, it's ok that Nokia changes focus here. But it's ok for the developers that feel falling back to be not amused too, to say it politely.
Back to widgets: If there was a proper replacement for widgets now (or once Qt 5 is out in a few months), this all wouldn't be that big problem. But there is no prime time ready QML/Quick for the desktop and widgets are done. What will fill that gap? To a desktop developer this can look like a slap in the face.
Maybe my concerns are based on incomplete information and I'm wrong. Who knows? The only point I strongly stand for, is that it's a communication disaster.
There's one last thing to add[1]: The fact that we all discuss this here in that detail and with that much emotions is only based on the one and only truth: Qt is an awesome framework and everyone is concerned that this holds true for a long, long future, be it we that we're whining here, as well as all the developers involved creating Qt.
fn1. ok, I've copied that introduction from someone else :)
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This is my take on the open source. I'm talking in general, not about Qt.
I don't have time or skills to contribute to open source projects. When I decide to use one, I think of myself as a customer, and I think of the project leaders as service providers. Unfortunately some open source leaders have different views.
Let's say I walk into a store and I see a lady offering free cheese samples. Let's say I take some cheese and I ask her very nicely for a cracker. What do you think I will hear back?
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Stop wining, go and buy your cracker.
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Don't you see that this cheese is free? Why don't you bring your own crackers and share them with others while you eat my cheese?
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or I'm sorry, we don't have crackers right now. But you have a great point, cheese and crackers go well together! I will bring some crackers tomorrow!
Do you see the difference? Most commercial software leaders look at the user suggestions as a valuable feedback. Some open source leaders... you know...
I don't want to explore the commercial interests of open source leaders, and why they treat non-contributing users like wining beggers. I just need to be practical and make some decisions for myself. This is what I have decided:
When my needs are exactly the same as the open source project's direction, we are happy. When I have different needs, I don't expect anything, and I will not ask.
So, Volker, just calm down and don't expect anything from Qt, if it's not QML.
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Communication disaster: do you want to contribute and write a press-release? No? Just calm down.
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Widgets: do you want to contribute? No? Just calm down.
Peace.
Peace and happines to everyone. Happy Valentine!
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[quote author="serkol" date="1329165999"]they have promised to resolve the App Store and sandboxing issues, but they have not done this yet.[/quote]
According to latest announcements, an update to Qt 4.8 (4.8.1) is set to be released in mid-march.
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[quote author="serkol" date="1329158869"]
was exactly like you suggest. When I asked for a bug fix or a feature, to make that tool more compatible with Mac OS X, their response sounded more like "Would you shut up at last, please? You have the [/quote]Hm... I had the same situation lot years ago with the Midnight Commander team...
Sadly, it seems to me that Nokia will (silently...) back out from Qt. I see some mobil predictions, and they claimed, that in the future will be 3 main line: Android, iOS, and Windows Phone (with Silverlight/XNA and a bit later Visual C++ !!!), I've seen nothing about Nokia Qt based phones.
With Volker, I'm not to optimist.
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Actually I am not afraid about my future here in Nokia, hacking on Qt Creator.
I am still very happy with how Qt 5 is progressing, and am still adding Qt widgets all over creator:-)
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[quote author="Tobias Hunger" date="1329228289"]Actually I am not afraid about my future here in Nokia, hacking on Qt Creator.
I am still very happy with how Qt 5 is progressing, and am still adding Qt widgets all over creator:-)[/quote]
This is very nice to know! :-)